View Full Version : [Brainport] Knocking players down
Inspired by a post by Rai Wong in the fall damage thread:
Should large explosions etc. knock players over? Just as a thought considering Tank AoE is generally neglected. Fusion blasts, rocket explosions and so on are all powerful effects, yet not only do they not push people about, they don't knock them down either, which strikes me as being quite odd.
So the idea would be, certain weapons would create a shockwave, which has a short range. A runner within the shockwave would have a certain chance of being knocked over, depending on their distance from the centre of the blast, perhaps also other factors such as health, stamina, agility and so on.
The weapons causing shockwaves would be primarily Moon Striker and other RLs, perhaps Malediction and other fusion cannons, the Combat Wheeler and Combat Trike weapons, also possibly rocket pistols (especially if a rare one is added). It could also be used with fusion rifles to give them a use other than plain boring AoE and give rifles something unique. In addition, a new line of APU spells causing explosions could be added. Alternatively, replace the energy barrels with energy explosions.
The effect of being knocked down would be simple. The shockwave would knock a character over, pehaps sending them flying a short distance if it's a large blast (i.e. Moon Striker) and they are very close to it. The character would then impact the floor. At this point the effect could branch off between the classes. Tanks would be difficult to knock over, but would take a bit longer to get back up due to their weight. Frail monks would be easier to knock over and send flying, but wouldn't stay down very long. Spies could perhaps simply roll over back to a standing position through their agility, PEs would would hit the ground harder than monks but have a small chance to roll out of the blast like Spies.
So, good idea, or bad idea?
Good idea, i have no idea why energy barrel is the only area weapon that pushes players. I think that evry area wapon should atleast push players around, one shoud push more then other(gun that use more force would do the most pushing :D )......me votes yes :angel:
sorry me got crazzzy typos today w00t
Roc-a-fella
23-06-04, 21:00
Pvp goes fast enuff in neocron if you are knocked down for even 3 seconds that is your death. BAD IDEA look at SWG they have knockdown and dizzy, it completly ruined their PVP and then PE's would get HC for rockets, knock you down and libby/judge you to death in seconds.
Dribble Joy
23-06-04, 21:10
How would being knocked down affect you though?
I see that it could be horribly abused, tanks possibly overspeccing, running in and shooting the floor next to people.
One hit and your comabt effectiveness being removed is effectively like para in some ways.
I would not mind a knock back from high end force weapons, but I am wary of a knock down, I am all for realism, but will consider game balance over it.
it wouldn't be abused, u don't c too many apu using barrels to push ppl cuz they'll die in sec them selfs, same with tanks they take most dmg from rocket shot (if it's closer to them)...i think it would just add a lill realism to the game , but i think it's k as it is don't really care much about it... :p
Sounds cool... except different classes getting up at different speeds. I think that they should all get up as soon as they hit the floor, that way it'll be cool as you fly 20 feet through the air, but also when you hit you get back up quickly so it doesn't effect PvP too much. Being on the ground for even a second or two would just suck.
Also, you would have to actually fly up as well as back and land facing upwards briefly (before you stand up again), to make it look cool from your point of view.
Oh, and if you get knocked back or not should depend on TL in correlation with your agility/body health or whatever, so that a Melee tank couldn't put a few points in HC and fire the first level ML to be able to knock capped players down.
Roc-a-fella
23-06-04, 21:47
Even if they put it in they wouldnt put it in in a SMART way there would be bugs and spy's would be knocking people over and everyone would be dieing really easy and the forums would be filled with crying threads to remove it,
This game requires too much movment as para shows :p so it would have to be quick in your getting back up. I like the suggestion about you maybe randomly flying somewhere and falling down but getting right back up. It would be a cool effect but also the person would have to actually follow your body very quickly.
Yeah, because you'd never really hit someone who was flying through the air like that, as for a start it'd be a completely unexpected movement, and it'd be way too fast for you to follow with a reticle (though maybe some good APUs could do it).
I just have visions of being hit with a moonie and thrown across Pepper Park, skidding along then kip uping up and carrying on the fight, Libby blaring. :D
I was thinking maximum knockdown of a second, and that's if you're a Tank who takes a direct hit from a Moon Striker. Everything else would be less. If you get pushed over, you're usually straight back up again, that's what I was thinking. Also only knocking people a few metres, like the width of an OP entrance or so. Not knocking them straight over an OP wall and then lying on the floor for 30 seconds. :p
@Roc-a-fella: The idea is for it not to be happening all the time, just occasionally as a cool, unique feature. And I don't see an easy way for a spy to do it anywhere. If PEs speccing H-C for rockets is a concern, there are scores of different ways to compensate for it. The first of course, is the fact that the rockets a PE could use would only knock someone down for half a second or so. And that is only if they knock someone down at all, which is unlikely in the first place.
@DJ: I did think of that (there's a lot I've managed to miss out it seems :p). There's a couple of ways to prevent such abuse. The main one I was thinking of is to make the chance of falling over certain if you are the firer and you hit yourself. Also there's the fact that a Tank who ran into a group and fired a rocket at the floor would be the one who spent the most time on the ground afterwards. The victims would be up and shooting him as he climbed to his feet.
tomparadox
23-06-04, 22:12
nah, bad idea, for a couple reasons.
1 of wich is: Take a tank. The tank shoots someone with a rocket lancher/mal/doomie something liek that. the enamy dude falls on the groun. now hes easy target. say theres a ppu helping the tank. the dude is instantly paraed because hes not moveing, then hes screwed... even without a ppu, the dude would be screwed. tank hits him with a rocket. loses,mmm about 50 health. the other dude takes aobut 70 - 80 dmg. the dude that shot him with the rocket then witches to a CS...
What im trying to say is. if a tank shoots you with a rocket, you fall, your dead.
nah, bad idea, for a couple reasons.
1 of wich is: Take a tank. The tank shoots someone with a rocket lancher/mal/doomie something liek that. the enamy dude falls on the groun. now hes easy target. say theres a ppu helping the tank. the dude is instantly paraed because hes not moveing, then hes screwed... even without a ppu, the dude would be screwed. tank hits him with a rocket. loses,mmm about 50 health. the other dude takes aobut 70 - 80 dmg. the dude that shot him with the rocket then witches to a CS...
What im trying to say is. if a tank shoots you with a rocket, you fall, your dead.
If there's a PPU the other person will get parashocked anyway so that's irrelevant. The idea is that the knocked down player isn't going to be down longer than enough to get one shot at him. Even then, he's not going to fall down every time he gets hit by a rocket, and when was the last time you hit anyone with a direct hit from a Moon Striker?
nah, bad idea,
It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. in fact a very cool idea. It just needs tweaking. Random flying . .getting back up quickly. Tank getting a chance of getting knocked down increased if he shoots himself. Making it hard to track a flying character. the player who got thrown would just have to adjust to their new position.
HELL YEAH!
Just for the realism and coolness of putting a MOONSTRIKER round into the Hack room at an OP and having a flaming spy come flying out of the door!
It would make H-C tanks feared (as they rightly should be) rather than M-C tanks (which in real life would be kind of pants)
If its going to be put in... you might as well do it properly, and have massive throwback, like 30m back and 15m in the air. Full on action movie style, then just get up again and carry on fighting. :p
Oh, oh, oh then make it so that when you die to AoE you always get thrown back. :D
If its going to be put in... you might as well do it properly, and have massive throwback, like 30m back and 15m in the air. Full on action movie style, then just get up again and carry on fighting. :p
Oh, oh, oh then make it so that when you die to AoE you always get thrown back. :D
If you get killed by it then there's no reason to complain if you get thrown up in the air. :p
tomparadox
24-06-04, 01:26
Ok, if this gets put in then let people hit other people with there guns. Not a lot of dmg but pushes them down.
While indeed realistically people would get knocked down, what I was trying to say was more of a push effect. If people get stunned and knocked down like in real life, then tanks would become ridiculously over powered. Of course the whole "push" effect was to push people to fall off cliffs, or people standing high up in op walls, or in the upgraded plaza where people can stand really high.
However I agree with the idea if it was implemented in a subtle way.
Subtle.... wtf?
No way dude. Massive explosion, people flying everywhere. If you're standing that high in Plaza then its your own bloody fault. :p
How about adding that effect to shotguns too
<<Pictures the scene in Kill BIll Vol II where Budd knocks Kiddo 15 feet through the air with a double-barreled shotgun>>
give people a reason to use those pumpguns.
I wanna see people sommersault when you frag a grenade near em, like in THE A TEAM !.
Or were they using trampolines for that? It sure looked like it.
Ok, so you want more animations like that? Be prepared for lower fps then ;)
Ok, so you want more animations like that? Be prepared for lower fps then ;)
To the engine, animating someone flying through the air is merely a combination of the same physics of a grenade flying through the air with any animation of a model such as walking. There's no reason why it would produce any more of an FPS hit than watching a tank walking and shooting a grenade launcher.
tomparadox
24-06-04, 16:42
i have a question. it was stated earlyer in this thred, that the other char could only get one shot in before you get up.
Ok, now to my question about this.
Say you have 2 caped tanks. Tank A and Tank B.
Tank A shoots Tank B, Tank be falls down, How is tank B going to be able to get up fast enuf to avoid geting shot more than one time by a caped CS? I meen hes a siting duck till he gets u p, by the time he gets up he'll have lost a ton of health.
I meen think about it, a caped tank, In PA. i would estimat it would take about 2 - 3 seconds to get up without it looking stupid, that is if you are looking at The weight of the PA, all the stuff he has on him. it would take about 2 - 3 seconds if not 2 - 4 to get up, by the time he gets up with that estimation Tank A could have probly unloaded 2 or 3 shots. And thats not includeing the time it takes to fall down, would be less than a second probly, but still long enuf for tank A to swich to CS, then hed be able to shoot Tank B the hole time hes geting up...
And if the tank instantly gets up like a rezz, it will look stupid.
Nah, he can always learn to do the ninja style flip-flop get up thingy :-)
tomparadox
24-06-04, 16:48
Nah, he can always learn to do the ninja style flip-flop get up thingy :-)
lol, id half to see that ^^
I suppose you could always knock them back pretty far. It'd be hard for someone to target them then. Remember the Tank isn't going to land flat on his face and lie there then get up, it's sorta he's knocked off his feet so he twists to one side and clambers back up. If someone pushes you over, you don't just lie there, and you don't take long to get back up, do you?
tomparadox
24-06-04, 18:57
unless your talking about being knoked back and landing on your hands or something then jumping up, you cant get up fast if your wareing PA... notice the -25 athletics... athletics = jumping... but still hed get a good shot or 2 in, wich can be the diferense between wining and dieing.
But i might have been misunderstanding your meening of being knoked down... are you meening being knoked over, like landing flat on your ass then geting up, or jest hit then sorta falling over and landing on your hands type thing..
The landing on your hands thing. It's more about agility anyway than athletics TBH. Also yes I did notice the -25 ATH on PA, which is precisely why I don't wear it. :p
tomparadox
24-06-04, 19:12
The landing on your hands thing. It's more about agility anyway than athletics TBH. Also yes I did notice the -25 ATH on PA, which is precisely why I don't wear it. :p
ah, well if its not falling flat on your ass then sure.
Nah, he can always learn to do the ninja style flip-flop get up thingy :-)
Its called a kip up.
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