View Full Version : Same faction pk'ing
Although this is based on something thats actually happening in game, i wont elaborate as to exactly wat server and wat clan for decencys sake. However, i just wanted to get other peoples opinions on the subject. What i mean by same faction pk'ing is when (for example) one TT clan decides its gonna put the rest of its faction on KoS, or a few specific clans in their faction on KoS, and pk em all the time.
I personally think its ridiculous, and kinda defeats the whole meaning of factions.
I like to hear others views on this...
Psycho Killa
21-06-04, 19:16
Pking faction allies for no reason = bad
Pking faction allies because they double crossed you/ ripped you off/ pissed you off in a non excusable manor = fine by me.
Dirk_Gently
21-06-04, 19:33
Pking faction allies for no reason = bad
Pking faction allies because they double crossed you/ ripped you off/ pissed you off in a non excusable manor = fine by me.
Yup and double crossing/ripping off/pissing off own fac allies also = bad
thread starter you crahn on saturn? if so i know the situation that you refere to.
on the actual point, depends on circumstances if there is reason i see np with it
This happened on Pluto last night, we had a chat about it and result was that the guy Pking was pissed of at that particular guy and also wanted to gain faction symphaty for a switch.
sounds like its aproblem on every server,as uranus just as bad,then again if a runner from the same faction pk you all the time the big boys should get to hear about it and kick the dicks ass
What i mean by same faction pk'ing is when (for example) one TT clan decides its gonna put the rest of its faction on KoS, or a few specific clans in their faction on KoS, and pk em all the time.
I personally think its ridiculous, and kinda defeats the whole meaning of factions.
I like to hear others views on this...
That is why we have SL in. He can kill 2-3 of his own clan outside of OP Zones and then hes red, he would also have enough negative Faction rating that his own guards would shoot him and he would be kicked out of the faction.
The person during the Pluto was getting thier knickers in a twist because they got killed. Get over it. People die.
@ Ezza, yeah you got it right, it is stupid, its got to the point where i would consider changing faction just to be able to kill these people without taking a hit to symp and such.
Real power should be given though to someone to be able to kick someone out of a faction, there is no law other than what we hold in our hands, our guns.
There is no future other than what we make for ourselves.
The Faction Councellor should have a role in this.
for example, a clan in his faction went berserk and started PKing their own factions and allies. They would report that problem to the Faction Councellor and that clan gets a warning.
After 2 or 3 warnings the Faction Councellor will only have to remove them from the faction to keep his faction's respect and he could do that by removing their clan and changing them to factionless.
Real power should be given though to someone to be able to kick someone out of a faction, there is no law other than what we hold in our hands, our guns.
The problem with that is you get a clan that dictates its wishes to other clans in the faction or it kicks them out. When was I was in FA a certain clan was forever trying to dictate (because they got the majority vote) and thier suggestion was also an option to kick people out of the faction.
Imagine spending 300-400k to switch factions and time only to be kicked out again because someone disagrees with you.
@ Ezza, yeah you got it right, it is stupid, its got to the point where i would consider changing faction just to be able to kill these people without taking a hit to symp and such.
Real power should be given though to someone to be able to kick someone out of a faction, there is no law other than what we hold in our hands, our guns.
There is no future other than what we make for ourselves.in regards to the saturn incident it was my clan(yes im back as crahn :p ) the incident happened just as i left to go BD, and was a complete misunderstanding to start with.
so it appeared to be legitimate in the fighting, however this has all been sorted, i spoke to the parties involved at it has been resolved, so for my clans part there should be no more crahn v crahn violence
The Faction Councellor should have a role in this.
not if i have anything to do with it, i and my clan have issues with the FC :mad:
not if i have anything to do with it, i and my clan have issues with the FC :mad:
As a faction member you should respect your FC. why, what have you done to him/her? maybe that shows how ur not loyal to your faction therefore you deserve a kick :p
As a faction member you should respect your FC. why, what have you done to him/her? maybe that shows how ur not loyal to your faction therefore you deserve a kick :p
when a FC comes on with a attitude, then makes a derogatory remark about my rep it gives me reason not to like the FC
respect is earned not automatic.
i respected the BD FC kirja was cool
the CS one has done nothingto earn my respect, when he/she does then the FCwill get my loyalty
As a faction member you should respect your FC. why, what have you done to him/her? maybe that shows how ur not loyal to your faction therefore you deserve a kick :p
Other way around. :p I was there when the protopharma experiment was going on. Rust is a clear threat to Crahn and all monks everywhere, yet our FC basically said that any reprocussions against ProtoPharm would be dealt with a ban (this is keeping it outside of the experiment remember). Then asked various questions more or less blanked them.
At the very least the threat should of been discussed and not acting as if they were suddenly Protos FC.
Anyway, not being loyal to your FC != being loyal to your faction. I will follow the Crahns voted in leader, even if it is means wanton murder and destruction. But being told that some head of Crahn is bossing me around, when no one has seen him.. Phhhh. Anyway if he is such a high and mighty leader why isn't he trying to build the Crahns abilites? Instead we have seen continual crippling of Crahns followers with only power cloaks to show for it after over a year.
Want to know why the Crahn Leader is in hiding? Because people in the Faction would rez kill him. :p
* Edit.
I have had run ins with a few FC's.
FA FC: Friendly, open to discussion although didn't show up that often but did give heads up in relation to FA. Only the select few got a heads up of what was going on that might actually get you something.
PP FC: Friendly in answering questions pertaining to PP.
BD FC: The most 'in character' FC I have seen. Even when dealing with non BD she plays totally in character. Very impressed.
CS FC: Only real interaction with them was I was PK'ed by them once (when I wasn't in CS). Got a private message sometime later to contact them then never heard back from them when I did. Other then that occasionaly makes remarks on FACTION channel along the lines of "You are not worthy for me to tell you anything" or "When you can change things without people knowing then your the greatest" (sic. translation: I haven't done anything).
I did not like Crahn Saturn FC either, probably for the same reasons as Ezza, since we seem to be oppossed to some of his thoughts as what the faction should be.
Personally I believe in some reasons to attack your same Faction members; if a clan is not in agreement with the current policy of the faction, its members can become some kind of rebels amongst their kind, but for obvious reasons, as they mean no harm to the faction, instead want solve a situation that they consider aggravating to their ideals. I agree with this.
IE if I was TG, and other Clan(s) decided to stablish a N.A.P. with an enemy faction that myself or my Clan do not respect, or saw strange behaviours that even not implying violence, I consider a threat to the stability of the faction, undoubtely I would attack them without mercy. Most likely I'd make myself an outcast and a renegade for my same faction members, but the reasons behind this behaviour are well worth the cost, and no FC or other authority would have the right to remove us from our Faction.
This is the situation (and worse) I found after joining Crahn in Saturn, along with some other issues with which I completely disagreed, and my attitude was very similar to the above.
I wouldn't mind that our FCs had some kind of Faction powers, but only if these persons were tolerant with the RP purposes behind our actions. You cannot threat the above situation as if we were common wankers.
What I mean is that our reasons might be more complex if we look deeper into the problem.
I think a number of you really are missing the point when it comes to Faction Counsellors. They're there to help with, and improve, Roleplay; not to stand around, bend over and smile politely at everything that's said to them.
People complain about the Crahn FC "pushing them around", but isn't that precisely what you are doing by getting angsty and moody when they don't do as you want? So what if they make a snippy comment about your "reputation", this is a game where smacktalk and backstabbing are almost constant; yet you get offended by a single comment thrown out by someone who is, for all intents and purposes, just a die-hard Roleplayer with limited GM powers they can't even use that often?
Faction Counsellors aren't there to simply bend to your will; they're people as well. They have their own ideas, ethics and driving forces behind them. If you can't accept that they're there to enhance the Roleplaying atmosphere of a Faction, and continue to speak Out Of Character when dealing with them, then don't complain when they give you the cold shoulder or get snappy right back at you.
Likewise, Archeus: I was there when Alashandra was "threatening people with bans". She said nothing of the sort. It was, and I quote, the following:
"....and anyone who even considers jeopardising relations with ProtoPharm can expect me to take matters into my own hands."
She didn't threaten anyone with bans, she didn't bring any out of game things into the proceedings; she simply warned the have-a-go ally killers that action would be taken against anyone who attacked ProtoPharm. Furthermore, how do you know that Rust would have been an enormous threat to Psi-Monks? Alashandra is a Psi-Monk herself, and has ties to the ProtoPharm Counsellor, so I seriously doubt she was in the dark on that one.
Personally, I DO think Faction Counsellors should be given more power over their respective factions. Right now, clans are getting too full of themselves and expecting to have full control over the faction when, in reality, it should be the faction having control over them.
Don't like it? Then bugger off and find a Faction without any semblance of order.
Peace.
-Moscow
Ok well seeing as you asked Ezza i will put it in more detail and if the GM's have a problem with that they are welcome to delete this thread. Yeah i am talking about Crahn on Saturn, although there are kinda two different wars going on. The one i can understand is between Madji and Black Rose coz they have irl reasons behind it from what i know. The one i cant is the alliance FoC formed with Shadow and the thread they posted on fc forum suggesting that they were going to pk the rest of Crahn. Its a bit ganked if u ask me...
Just to clear something, my relation with Alashandra is almost non-existant, as in the time I was talking about she was not the Crahn FC on Saturn. FoC is a very old Crahn clan, so I thought Ezza was talking about the previous FC... my mistake if it's not the case.
Anyway, in regards with Faction-Clan relationship, who should hold power over who is a non defined subject. In my opinion the Faction is us, the clans. Roleplay aside, without the clans and their members the faction are a bunch of NPCs and a compendium of idelogies, but we are who shape them and make it a reality.
So this is the reason why I disagree with some views posted here about Faction Counsellors and Faction importance, their power should be fed by the strong relation with the Clan leaders, and the faction council should serve more purposes than just figuring in the citycom. Now retaking the RP aspect of it, as I have said I don't mind the FC holding some power, given in communion with ALL respectable clan leaders/representatives, and only used in agreement with them, not at his own will. This of course includes the opinion and reasons (RP or not) of the offending clan(s).
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People complain about the Crahn FC "pushing them around", but isn't that precisely what you are doing by getting angsty and moody when they don't do as you want?
I asked on FACTION what was the story with Rust and if anyone knows what CS standing is in relation to ProtoPharma. Our FC replied as you said (along with other stuff which certainly implied, stay the hell away from PP or face a ban). Up until that point no one even knew the FC was there.
When they did, they asked about a trial, which TBH I had heard nothing about and the reply was only one person got the chance and no one else can try. Not even told who. People in thier own faction would like to know what is going on in thier faction. Not to be told it is none of your business.
The whole thing smacked of that the CS FC was sitting in ProtoPharma HQ watching what was going on simply because they could. Nothing to do with helping the Faction.
Faction Counsellors aren't there to simply bend to your will; they're people as well. They have their own ideas, ethics and driving forces behind them. If you can't accept that they're there to enhance the Roleplaying atmosphere of a Faction, and continue to speak Out Of Character when dealing with them, then don't complain when they give you the cold shoulder or get snappy right back at you.
I didn't speak out of character when talking to our FC. In fact I generally stay in character. The FC is to enhance the roleplay for the faction they are in.
Black Dragon FC for example, would actually make me want to switch to BD (even though they are all blood thirsty druggies :p ).
Furthermore, how do you know that Rust would have been an enormous threat to Psi-Monks? Alashandra is a Psi-Monk herself, and has ties to the ProtoPharm Counsellor, so I seriously doubt she was in the dark on that one.
Then she should be putting her faction at rest instead of "Your not important enough for me to tell you anything". The only intel we have about Rust is that it negates PSI effects. How can that not be a serious threat to monks everywhere? She could of easily roleplayed a situation where more intel would be passed out to the faction at a later stage instead of being told to keep out out of it because your not protopharma.
Personally, I DO think Faction Counsellors should be given more power over their respective factions.
I disagree. In FA we had an issue with an FC's helper seemed to think that they were the be all and end all of what should happen. What did they do? They managed to tear apart the whole faction by dictating what the Angels should do, when in fact it is not what the Angels wanted, nor was it the wishes of the democratically elected heads of the faction.
FC is a go between KK and the elected heads, as well building up the faction they are working for. It is not a position that you have any power to boss people around (beyond the wishes of KK). The CS FC hasn't done anything to date that I can see which helps improve Crahn or make people want to join Crahn.
Don't like it? Then bugger off and find a Faction without any semblance of order.
And it is that sort of attitude that an FC shouldn't convey.
People complain about the Crahn FC "pushing them around", but isn't that precisely what you are doing by getting angsty and moody when they don't do as you want? So what if they make a snippy comment about your "reputation", this is a game where smacktalk and backstabbing are almost constant; yet you get offended by a single comment thrown out by someone who is, for all intents and purposes, just a die-hard Roleplayer with limited GM powers they can't even use that often?
you know what i do with the normal people who talk shit about me, i kill them, you want me to do what i would normally do then?
FAnG got an official warning or 2
for going to war against crahn, FA and TG
basically tg was overpowered we wanted the 20 million small clans and glory followers to leave tg to balance it out.
they wouldnt
we pk'd/ganked/griefed
we got an official warning saying that if we continued fang would all be banned and deleted.
tg is still overpowered
:wtf:
ok...wow and backup folks, Crahn has enough prblems already on saturn. I think the major factions players (clan leaders and other influential runners) need to work together a bit more on sorting out not only the infighting between clans, but Crahns presence as a whole on Saturn. We a big ass faction, just need some more organisation...
Here are my 3 scenarios.
1) I am at point X ... See enemy and waste him, He logs on his alt, in same faction to come waste me ... Now if I kill his alt, I get a hit on SL. If I dont I make myself a target... In this case I knew his alts clan and sorted out the problem ... BUt had I not known I would have had to kill him...
2) A clan mate (Level low 40sh Tank) gets killed by faction .... I get a lot of swearing on direct about how this same faction clan are KOS my clan ... I ask why ...
Answer was simple. The clan mate saw an enemy kill a faction char in a hunting zone, and he did not respond...thefore he was killed by a group of guys from the same clan , who are same faction. This made no sense to me either
3) Even more simple.... We PKing, and a clan mate arrives, does not get a chance for team. He runs in front of me and I deal him some damage (Not a lot) ... he dies I take a SL hit ....
SL / Factions / Clans and politic needs a look at
you know what i do with the normal people who talk shit about me, i kill them, you want me to do what i would normally do then?
Look dude your asking for it. Shut the fuck up and don't make such a big problem out of almost nothing. You're over reacting and what you're doing is so unnessecary.
Pking faction allies for no reason = bad
Pking faction allies because they double crossed you/ ripped you off/ pissed you off in a non excusable manor = fine by me.
i haven't read the rest of this thread but a problem with this i see, particularly on multi characters servers is people having different characters in different factions, i.e. player A pks Player B whos is in faction that is red to player A, then player B logs on an alt that is in the same faction as player A, kills player A.
Player A is like WTF? and put player B and his alt that is same faction on kos, this then spirals out of control and they both get friends involved and usually their clans, thus igniting a war between both clans that are same faction...
Look dude your asking for it. Shut the fuck up and don't make such a big problem out of almost nothing. You're over reacting and what you're doing is so unnessecary.
wft are you talking about [edit]
what exactly have i done. nothing as of yet
you know what i do with the normal people who talk shit about me, i kill them,
Bingo. Theres the problem. The way I see it, this all boils down to Faction vs Clan politics. Many players seem to want ..no.. demand the right to attack, kill or ally with anyone they like - "You cant smacktalk me because I'm da man! Now your whole clan is KOS!" etc etc. They want to be the driving force behind the game, and they dont like being told how to play it. Is this a reasonable approach? Well, we're all paying customers, so in that sense you might say yes.. but do we have a responsibility to play the game the way KK planned it? Well, thats harder to answer.
Personally I'd say yes, and I think KK would too - the changes coming in DoY (like them or not) that will see the factions join one of two sides are a good example of this. Unlike a lot of people, however, I believe these steps are not enough. Fighting between clans in the same faction (and indeed, between the newly "allied" factions) is still going to be possible, albeit with the same penalties as before - loss of SL and FS. Big deal.
I guess I'm just not an advocate of the intolerance and “bully culture” that’s rife in this game. :(
EDIT:
Hmm, perhaps another reason we have this problem is because many of the players are from an FPS background, and their avatars are in-game representations of themselves rather than a character to be played. Any slight upon that person's in-game representation is cause for a show of dominance because there are no out-of-game repercussions* for doing so. Patience, tolerance and respect are simply left at the login screen.
*unless you live in Korea, where gaming can be taken VERY seriously!
Why doesn't KK start someting such as where you Account is bound to a Faction, not your characters? So when I have a Tsunami Account I can't make no other Faction dudes.
I can change the Accounts Faction by paying money and then all off the characters would change faction.
meh...i can see this getting very damn complicated...and it started out so simply. I wasnt talking about one runner killing another for not killing someone who killed their mate who was in the same faction (or whatever that was about). I was talking about FoC (a crahn sect clan) pk'ing other crahn sect clans for no particular reason, regardless of the fact that they only have 30 something members and LS is now 150+, its the basic integrity of the faction and the respect that same faction runners should be showing eachother.
MJS has told us already with B DOY coming that Faction > Clan, its that simple, tbh i wish clans was taken out of the game and you belong to a faction and thats it.
If someone doesn't like a FC in thier faction, then they should either vote for someone else or step forward to stand for the position themselves, but if there is not anyone else and you don't want it yourself, then you must be happy with the current standing, failing that leave the faction for one that suits you and the FC stands for reasons you do like.
Each FC has an agenda, you should know this before casting your vote, just like in real life.
As to what power a FC should have, most certain the ability to remove a person from the faction, but i agree that can be abused, so maybe the FC can give a certain player 3 warnings before contacting a GM and then removing them, Nidd can kick em out of faction, i bet he would enjoy that ;)
I'm glad to hear situations are improving in Crahn on Saturn, this past week it has been a real mess, but things are now looking better, certain allies are building bridges and so on.
We must have a united faction when it comes to war, and with DOY coming its going to be very wierd to be allied to factions you would have killed before, so if we can't sort out our own faction and even our allies now, we have no chance against Neocron when DOY opens its gates to us.
Why doesn't KK start someting such as where you Account is bound to a Faction, not your characters? So when I have a Tsunami Account I can't make no other Faction dudes.
I can change the Accounts Faction by paying money and then all off the characters would change faction.
Limits choice.... EG CA have advantages but only for certain chars. Sometimes you wanna be a good guy and sometimes you don't.
What if you wanna move cause TT aint fun (as their leaders or politics aint for you) and yet Next is going in the right direction for you, then You can't unless you move 4 chars / delete 4 chars ....
Can't be implimented .... What about the Paladin thingy ... when you do all epics ....
the only way they should being faction kicking is if there was a non faction that you went to when kicked
nice to see someone else is on the same wavelength Yoda =) although me thinks there is a little way to go before Crahn is sorted again. I still think some of the core players should meet up at some point and hammer out some way in which we can try to sort it out. Also possibly put some questions towards our FC
MJS has told us already with B DOY coming that Faction > Clan, its that simple, tbh i wish clans was ......
Would not resolve faction killing. You could still kill factions ... so no go there ....
Plus people orginise themselves into groups they feel comfortable with hence clans exist. If we were all forced into 1 un-dynamic group people would look for something. Look for a game which would fit their game style. As it is the game allows for both big and small clans
Ok well seeing as you asked Ezza i will put it in more detail and if the GM's have a problem with that they are welcome to delete this thread. Yeah i am talking about Crahn on Saturn, although there are kinda two different wars going on. The one i can understand is between Madji and Black Rose coz they have irl reasons behind it from what i know. The one i cant is the alliance FoC formed with Shadow and the thread they posted on fc forum suggesting that they were going to pk the rest of Crahn. Its a bit ganked if u ask me...
im a former Cartel(shadow) member so that alliance comes from that.
the pking of crahns doesnt come from that, it came from a diffrent incident involving a high member of FoC and a high member of Lost souls.
as i have stated that i all sorted and there is no crahn killing on the part of my clan now. however i understand shadow are killing crahns, they dont kill my clan so i or my members will not get involved in that
regardless of the fact that they only have 30 something members and LS is now 150+, lol only just saw this, lol im not sure what that has to do with anything, you think those figures bother us if we were at war.
i play this game to fight, the more people i fight the better so you having 150 doesnt make any odds.
but as we not at war now there np, maybe you should speak to wannabe
I is surprised the mods have let this go one, as its become a personal in game name mentioning topic....
But yes Faction PKing needs a visit
MODS ON HOLIDAY ?
I is surprised the mods have let this go one, as its become a personal in game name mentioning topic....
But yes Faction PKing needs a visit
MODS ON HOLIDAY ?
proberbly know how arse up crahn is so letting it slide :p
however i understand shadow are killing crahns, they dont kill my clan so i or my members will not get involved in that.
Exactly, i don't know the situation between other crahn clans and shadow, but i do know it between Lost souls and Shadows, what seemed to come across as arrogance from some certain BD members, ended up with pking rampant from some of them to LS members, for a few weeks we took no action, but it got silly to the point where many of us wanted war, regardless of colour of faction tags.
But war so far has been avoided, the leaders have been talking and like i said before, things seem to be improving, bridges are being built, which is a good thing.
What would be nice is the Clan war system was tied into the factions, so if a large number of clans say started a war with BD then the factions stance towards BD would change to neutral or hostile.
meh im sorry Ezza, wasnt aware that it had stopped =) Also i do apologise for making it a bit more personal that it should have been, as i said in the previous post the GM's are welcome to stop this thread at any point.
As far as the person you mentioned Ezza, i dont know what he did, but i know he can be a bit head strong at times. Still, he is a good bloke at heart if u catch him on the right day. Shadow pk'in us is something that never surprised me, although i like to think i still get on ok with some of its members (specially the older bunch from when it was cartel) coz they are a decent bunch.
If someone doesn't like a FC in thier faction, then they should either vote for someone else or step forward to stand for the position themselves, but if there is not anyone else and you don't want it yourself, then you must be happy with the current standing, failing that leave the faction for one that suits you and the FC stands for reasons you do like.
A good point, Yoda, but dont forget that KK picks the Faction Counsellors, not the players (although the Faction counsel is comprised of elected players, and the FC is meant to work with the councel). As I understand it, the players behind the FC's have changed a number of times, so I'd like to think that KK are monitoring the actions of the FC's to prevent abuse, and with that in mind, I would be happy for the FC's to have more control over the people in their faction - perhaps a vote from both the FC and the Faction Chairman would be sufficient to eject a player from a faction? That way the players get some control over the process..
Each FC has an agenda, you should know this before casting your vote, just like in real life.
True, but while they have their own agenda, I'll bet they are also expected to follow certain rules (like the game-dictated faction politics)
What would be nice is the Clan war system was tied into the factions, so if a large number of clans say started a war with BD then the factions stance towards BD would change to neutral or hostile.
Yes, making the faction system dynamic could work, but that would also shaft faction runner balance even more, wouldnt it?
well dont see any harm in nameing the names here, not like im bothered about my clan being mentioned :lol:
but ya my clan shouldnt be killing any more crahnites, if it does happen please feel free to message shinto in game and i will look into it
Will do, i will pass the same message on to the rest of LS (about not pk'in FoC), am slowly getting them round to the idea that its not always best to shoot first and ask questions later. Politics in game is seeming to be more my thing currently as until i cap me tank and get some training, i SERIOUSLY blow at pvp.
Will do, i will pass the same message on to the rest of LS (about not pk'in FoC), am slowly getting them round to the idea that its not always best to shoot first and ask questions later. Politics in game is seeming to be more my thing currently as until i cap me tank and get some training, i SERIOUSLY blow at pvp.
lol now that i jacked my tank in and back playing a monk im proberbly back to keeping FoC on track.
A good point, Yoda, but dont forget that KK picks the Faction Counsellors, not the players
Exactly. The FCs are not voted into thier position so they are not reflective of the voters. I tend to think of the FC as the "Humphrey Appleby (http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/articles/y/yesminister_7777145.shtml)" of the faction.
I would be happy for the FC's to have more control over the people in their faction - perhaps a vote from both the FC and the Faction Chairman would be sufficient to eject a player from a faction? That way the players get some control over the process..
This would be a horrible idea. I've seen first hand how this could of been a horrible idea and seriously hope it doesn't come to pass, or if it is does that it requires a large majority of the faction to vote who stays and who goes.
Yes, making the faction system dynamic could work, but that would also shaft faction runner balance even more, wouldnt it?
It would allow factions to change thier standing based on the current political trend. For example, lets say TG take all the map and hold it for thier clan only. Then all other factions declare a war over this. This would lock out most of the map from TG (eg. Pepper park, OZ, Tech Haven) until they come to an agreement. It would also help cut down on massive faction switching.
Exactly. The FCs are not voted into thier position so they are not reflective of the voters. I tend to think of the FC as the "Humphrey Appleby" of the faction.
*lol* Yes Minister rocks! I dont really think it matters that the players have no say in the choice of FC, though - the FC's are presumably singing from a KK song sheet, and if players voted, they'd only vote for the person who was most likely to help out / favour their clan. I dont trust the players, and I guess you don't trust KK. Maybe we should just go all X-Files :D
This would be a horrible idea. I've seen first hand how this could of been a horrible idea and seriously hope it doesn't come to pass, or if it is does that it requires a large majority of the faction to vote who stays and who goes.
Ok I agree it isn't a good solution (problems like the Chairman being from the troublesome clan and refusing to vote spring to mind).. but I dont think everyone in the faction should vote either. The big clans will get their way through sheer voting power, so perhaps this task is something that should be left to the KK and the GM's after all.
It would allow factions to change thier standing based on the current political trend. For example, lets say TG take all the map and hold it for thier clan only. Then all other factions declare a war over this. This would lock out most of the map from TG (eg. Pepper park, OZ, Tech Haven) until they come to an agreement. It would also help cut down on massive faction switching.
Call me pessimistic, but I think it would have the reverse effect because in this game, only the small factions can be "held hostage" and forced in to agreement. In your example, if enough TG clans wanted TG to be the new Anarchy Breed (sounding familiar? :D) they could shift the alliances of BD, TS and CS to neutral / hostile and fight everyone. As we have seen so many times before, the weak-willed would flock to TG simply to be with the strongest clans (aka the winning side). That problem would snowball, too.
from what i understand of FC's they are there to help the faction and to act as liason between KK and factions. I think some fc's may be more interested in position priveledges than doing much else (although im not 100% on that). From personal experience the best councilor ive ever come across was when i was in NEXT, and that councilor was Henry Dorsett. He organised big meetings for NEXT clans (in a special faction app), and meetings with other factions for proper alliance forming, etc. He was also a big help to faction noobies and he always made time to dish out equipment and advice, he was also properly active when i knew him, but i have no idea what hes up to these days.
I dont trust the players, and I guess you don't trust KK. Maybe we should just go all X-Files :D
FCs were previously players. They are not KK employees (not in the paid sense afaik). Power corrupts, and even the strong willed will find power a problem. After a while you forget the little people and deal with the perks.
Call me pessimistic, but I think it would have the reverse effect*snip*
Well it would be based off the clan wars. So clans in other factions would have to accept the wars for the hostilities commence, otherwise they would be treated as neutral.
It probably wouldn't handle civil wars very well, and with BDOY being more City centric, you are probably going to see a lot more civil wars.
im agreeing with the DoY civil war thing, from what i understood DoY city was gonna be lawless, so im thinking there is gonna be a lot of street battles going on. I hope everyone allies nicely with doy, but i really dont think its gonna happen. Way too many old grudges for that to happen...
tomparadox
22-06-04, 16:29
Pking faction allies for no reason = bad
Pking faction allies because they double crossed you/ ripped you off/ pissed you off in a non excusable manor = fine by me.
i agree with that.
This happened on Pluto last night, we had a chat about it and result was that the guy Pking was pissed of at that particular guy and also wanted to gain faction symphaty for a switch.
Yes :), that's me and a person who will go unnamed, because I don't feel its right to divulge that info. I can't stand this person. He thinks he can judge me because I killed him once. I was pissed off at him for being harsh when it comes to trading rares (even though we are own faction), and despite having done nothing wrong he still offered me crap trading rates. Then I decided to go TS, and was walking to the GenRep in MB when guess who I saw? Yup, this dude, and I thought "well, seeing as I will soon be red to him, I may as well get some sympathy of him". I didn't think much of it at the time.
I expected the flood of DMs, but what I didn't epect was for him to call me "sad" and "lame" and a "fucking noob". I explained to him that I didn't like him and needed sympathy to join Tsunami, so, in the intrest of RP, decided to kill runners to get that sympathy up. He wouldn't buy any of it, slapped me on ignore, and to this day takes every oppurtunity to insult me. Even though I know I'm on ignore I don't retort with insults because I feel that would reduce me to his level and I don't have any actual reason to think he's like this in real life, so I can't insult his personality.
Yes, in most circumstances starting a war on your own faction is wrong, but I feel I was jusified in that:
1) We weren't friendly towards each other.
2) I was planning to join a faction that was red to him.
3) I wasn't part of a clan so my actions would only have repurcussions on me.
4) I think its more of a challenge to gain the sympathy through hunting runners rather than going into a faction HQ and killing the NPCs, and much more RP-friendly as it gives me enemies to fight as soon as I am that faction.
I'm happy to argue the point.
Edit:
The person during the Pluto was getting thier knickers in a twist because they got killed. Get over it. People die.
Exactly Archeus :).
1) We weren't friendly towards each other.
Thats the only bit I can fault, and then only if you did it for this reason alone(which you didn't). If you're planning to stay in your faction, try having more than one iota of patience and respect for your fellow faction members. I mean.
..why cant we all get along? :D
Well I wouldn't have PKed him if I wasn't going TS. But killing somebody I dont like and getting sympathy off them is killing two birds with one stone, plus I was planning to make enemies with him once I was in TS.
it's fun, get rid of sl, or bring neptune!
Scrag you wouldn't happen to talking about saturn and stuff like Shadow would you? Crahn is fubared. Cause Ixy of Madji went nuts over this weird little detail that i won't mention, so Madji and Shadow went KoS against Black Rose, and it's and ever going circle of BS.
Bred
basically tg was overpowered we wanted the 20 million small clans and glory followers to leave tg to balance it out.
if fang thinks TG is overpowered and dont like it
change factions
lol we did we went CM
CM became instantly overpowered within about an hour of us joining it and retaking all our ops.
and then the 20 million small fanboi winning team joining clans joined CM.
so we went back to anti city TG and they followed again.
you cant help fanboi's and wining side joiners im affraid so we just ganked them then got threatened with ban's for trying to fix the server inbalance our self.
would appear that kk likes it when one particular clan can basically stop the entire server. kinda like on pluto but with a clan of 15-20 not a clan of 50+
I really wanted to avoid posting about in game stuff here, but I feel a need to clear some things up.
First, yes MaDji and Black Rose (my clan) did have a IRL problem. I have know the leader of MaDji for many years, but our friendship fell through. After we left, MaDji and Black Rose kept to ourselves. Then one day a member of Black Rose killed a member of MaDji becasue the member was a Shadow alt that always PK'd us. Thats what started to MaDji Balck Rose war. And day after day Black Rose defended our sleves from a 3 clan allience (MaDji, Unforgiven, and Shadow). Well this went on for well over a month until recentlly.
Currently Balck Rose, MaDji, and Unforgiven have come together to the good of crahn to fight back the evil shadow members. And I must say it has been REALLY fun.
Now on the other hand we have FoC (Followers of Crahn) who have on MANY occasions attaked Simmons (owned by Crahn (black Rose)) with Black Dragon (shadow), and there reason is becasue they are friends. Which I can understand, but green on green sucks I dont care who you are.
And the worst thing about it all is Crahn Faction Leader (yamma) goes around PK'ing crahns, and declares war on his own faction becasue crahn is fighting Black Dragon.
So as of right now this is how it stands......MaDji, Black Rose, Unforgiven, and Lost Souls have been fighting and defending crahn together.
-Bronx
Leader
Black Rose
thanks for reading my post and for keeping up with in game threads :rolleyes:
ill tell you what ill go over it again.
ok it was first started because one member of FoC killed a Lost soul over a misunderstanding, this has now been sorted after i spoke to both parties.
then there was a member who was helping shadow kill crahns(and it wasnt me or yamma)that person has now been told.
as i said in another post on this very thread, if there is any more crahn killing from my members let me(shinto) know
And day after day Black Rose defended our sleves from a 3 clan allience (MaDji, Unforgiven, and Shadow).
We never worked with shadow. neither unforgiven did. Only once EVER i recall being in a fight helping shadows, but that was a fight VS FAs, and some shadows were asking us why we were here since we were KoS as far as they knew.
Besides, we rarely hunted BR on purpose. But BR did hunt MaDji
Think I’m a bit late into this thread but just to make points on the non-clan bashing parts :p
Firstly whoever suggested an account is tied to a faction needs to be shot :D so if I have a char that wants to do epics all my chars have to jump ship? No thanx and before anyone says we should just stick to faction only items from epics, then you'd need to balance the epics, implement them all and KK would have to change its mind on being a paladin.
It also penalises those who truly enjoy RP and role-playing from different perspectives, not everyone with chars in different factions are spies…
Also as for having to respect your faction counsellor it may be a fair point but in a RP game people don’t always have the same views about how an objective should be achieved, if a paying customer wishes to pursue a different route than that of his FC I don’t see a problem with it, and I don’t think anyone should be able to be kicked from their faction till there are viable alternatives, Anarchy Breed, Trader Union etc.
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