View Full Version : possible solution to fix PEs...
Only allow one drug at a time. Period.
Thoughts?
Thats not a fix, thats a fuck-all-pes-over.
I'd rather just remove the dex bonus from the PA, so its would be harder to access high end weapons.
why pick on the most nerfed class?
Encourage them to use TL<100 weapons, yes. Penalise them for using TL>100 weapons with not much of an alternative, no.
Only allow one drug at a time. Period.
Thoughts?
wtf and y do they need to be fixed
because with 3 drugs, I can get 5.5% pvp resists, 400 hp, and a capped slasher.
Without drugs, a PE can hit 111 dex without problems. More if you add a second MC5 and a DoY eye. The point, though, is that it should take major gimpage to pull it off. I should not have 184 pistol combat, 88 tech combat and 110+ agility. I do.
And don't whine to me that PEs are nerfed. There is no other class that can outperform a PE when solo, despite the loss of stealth.
Richard Slade
17-06-04, 17:30
because with 3 drugs, I can get 5.5% pvp resists, 400 hp, and a capped slasher.
Without drugs, a PE can hit 111 dex without problems. More if you add a second MC5 and a DoY eye. The point, though, is that it should take major gimpage to pull it off. I should not have 184 pistol combat, 88 tech combat and 110+ agility. I do.
And don't whine to me that PEs are nerfed. There is no other class that can outperform a PE when solo, despite the loss of stealth.
I dunno why you want this but since you're a PE and think it needs a nerf, I'm all for it!
Roc-a-fella
17-06-04, 17:35
PE's dont need a normal fix, they need a fix thought up by god.
Overusing drugs should = death.
Um, why do you want to nerf the PE now?
Are you just bored and have nothing to do ? or you just suck so much you decided "oh lets nerf a class"
or because PE's look handsome?
the only problem is the overpowred exe and slightly overpowered slasher for it's TL.
Those are the only problems, either get those "nerfed to the right strength" or just shutup, this game has enough nerfs and all that and frankly im sick of logging on a forum to see all this crap about "ONOZ!!! PES HAVE THE ABILITY TO TEH TANK GEKILLT!!!! KOS,,,," jesus christ man...
EDIT : FYI i also use a judge and i don't have an SA.
Original monk
17-06-04, 17:43
Overusing drugs should = death.
now that would be realistic :)
and if you guys are talking about nerfing anyway: dont let PE's use that PEPA4 ... while all the rest has so much shit to wear there PA4
everyone PA4 or no-one PA4 ...
i dont see why PE's gotta drug up to use rare rifles for spy's ... then yust make a spy ...
but indeed, KK gott amake the < TL 100 weapons more attractive instead of letting em drug to hilevel rares ..
2 days ago, my PE took on 2 APUs, a melee tank, 2 heavy tanks and a rifle spy. It took them 25 minutes to kill me. If that's fine with you, then cool, whatever you say, I'll just let it slide and keep going as I am.
Essentially what I'm aiming for is to keep the lower level pistols as the main weapon targets for most PEs. With only one drug, a PE can still use a slasher, but they can't be really good with it like a spy can. With only one drug, a PE can be incredibly good with a Judge. With only one drug, you have to choose between con setup and dmg setup. While it is limiting, it also allows diversity in preference, rather than simply cutting off the high end pistols or rifles.
Then you must be a really good PE
or
Your opponenets totally sucked because my tank can call PE's in a matter of seconds FYI and im not that great at HC tank also, i take 80dmg from a judge rofl (yes my tank con setup sux :(((( lmao).
or
You had a PPU sitting on your shoulder @@"
Then you must be a really good PE
or
Your opponenets totally sucked because my tank can call PE's in a matter of seconds FYI and im not that great at HC tank also, i take 80dmg from a judge rofl (yes my tank con setup sux :(((( lmao).
or
You had a PPU sitting on your shoulder @@"
It was Pepper 1. Everyone in local was my enemy. Crammed them all in a small hallway and nobody could hit me because I'm too fast.
so besides a drug restriction, what do you guys see as possible solutions to take PEs out of the running for capped TL 108+ weapons?
What buffs do u use if you dont mind sharing.
TBH it really is very hard to judge if a certain class is "balanced" or not in a laggy (at least to me) and small corrdor of pepper park.
With guards and we don't know if u hid behind the guards half the time.
Try a fight with a tank one v one in NF2 Deck 1 and report back.
I can't beat a tank 1 v 1 with a judge (a good tank mind you).
Pepper 1.
Is alot easyer with enough people running around they can't hit you that well trying killing the same amount in the wasteland with no where to hide :rolleyes:
Only allow one drug at a time. Period.
Thoughts?
What about my melee PE? He would be worthless.
I'm a black dragon and I take my drugs!
good point...
if only PEs capped at 60, 60, 65, 70, 45....
Original monk
17-06-04, 18:21
What about my melee PE? He would be worthless.
I'm a black dragon and I take my drugs!
hehe, roleplay doesnt have alot of effect on gamechanges :) well it does but its inferior to gamebalance, or whatever ya may like to call it :)
and indeed, youre melleePE would be worthless but thats youre own choise, read further
melleePE's are sumthing like hybridmonks, hybridtanks and even hybridspy's ... not everyone has em so they dont count ...
i have to adyust that last sentence cause hybridmonks been changed a few patches ago: they even lowerd the tl of a energyhalo with 2 apu, wich i am still very thankfull for, no kiddin, no sarcasm, KK even dropped that last 5% :cool:
enjoy mellee-ing :)
It was Pepper 1. Everyone in local was my enemy. Crammed them all in a small hallway and nobody could hit me because I'm too fast.
so besides a drug restriction, what do you guys see as possible solutions to take PEs out of the running for capped TL 108+ weapons?
One time you took 25 minutes to die running through and around 6 people, no doubt disappearing into walls and other players the whole time, and that's enough to justify a serious nerf? It doesn't even hold any relevance to your argument, a PE with no drugs can do that.
Dribble Joy
17-06-04, 18:34
There is no other class that can outperform a PE when solo
You have never fought a tank or spy of decent level then.
Tanks > PEs
Spies are PEs with better guns.
Over drugging is a 'problem', but it barely brings the high tl PE users equal to the others, besides useing 4 drugs in a non NF situation for longer than 20 mins is just.. silly.
This is not a solution.
Some form of restriction or change to drugs could be, but bashing something like this out without thinking and limited knowledge is.. silly.
nah i dont want to see drugs limited, if a PE wants to take 5 drugs at once to fight, great go for it, enjoy the drug flash afterwards
It's not been just one time, but I'm not going to turn this into a bloody bragging thread. I'm looking for serious suggestions for something I see as a problem. If others don't see it as a problem, then it'll stay as it is, and I'll totally drop the subject. That appears to be the way it's going, given the responses, anyway, so I guess nevermind. *shrugs*
Every post I've seen as a response that has actually tried to make a point has done so well. At this point, my view on this topic has pretty much been changed.
do some 1 v 1s with your drugged up PE and see if you get the same results
try fighting tanks monks low tech pes and see if you win in those cases like 90% of the time
Dribble Joy
17-06-04, 18:43
In theory I would like drugs to be removed, but that would a bad idea and people would not like it.
Do you take your PE to an OP fight? what happens if it lasts for 3-4 hours?
Also I question your '5.5%' statement.
On my manager at least that only occurs on a capped shelter at 170 total armour, with a heat/haz/br3 you will not get near cap.
Which means a completely shafted setup.
do some 1 v 1s with your drugged up PE and see if you get the same results
try fighting tanks monks low tech pes and see if you win in those cases like 90% of the time
I do.
ever though you were maybe a good PE then? nothing to do with drugs.
[TgR]KILLER
17-06-04, 18:51
Thats not a fix, thats a fuck-all-pes-over.
I'd rather just remove the dex bonus from the PA, so its would be harder to access high end weapons.
erm.. maybe fuck all fake PE's who use drugs over.. fucking PA over that is fucking a class over.. some of us PE's don't use drugs to TRY and be good :rolleyes:
my mistake....resists closer to 6.5%. My skillmanager is out of date, though, and I've heard there are updated algorithms that show the resists a little stronger. Plus, the drugs are affecting slightly different skills...
http://www.sunflower.com/~bgirten/issib.JPG
With regards to the reason I use TL3 deflector....I'll pop off a PA for primaries, but not for shields. I spend too much time running around to do that.
Ozambabbaz
17-06-04, 19:01
the problem at hand is that PEs can't be balanced with/against the other classes without removing drugs, Techi hit it
Dribble Joy
17-06-04, 19:08
I would (as said in another thread) prefer the max no. of drugs restricted to 2, and/or a limit on the number of drugs of any TYPE, IE. you can't use WF and RF at the same time, if you do, you get a nasty flash.
Getting flash when using more than one drug, progressively getting worse with each one you take, rather than making it impossible to use them.
heh techi, that setup sux ;)
PE's fine if u cry for nerfing go ahead and start with PPUs...
Dribble Joy
17-06-04, 19:14
Heh, removing br3/heat/haz (as initially happened with the spel req changes) would be one posibility....
Buh, what do I know.
350 HP, armors not even breaking 130? Yes, Slasher PEs shouldn't really exist, but that setup doesn't show why. o_O
Btw, that setup can't even use Slasher or Exec since they need 89 T-C.
good point...
if only PEs capped at 60, 60, 65, 70, 45....
I could go for that... It'd be fun to use psi imps and drug for blessed heal. hehe. Then again... 70 dex means 4 dex implants for a liberator (including SA), or 3 with PA. That would really really suck.
Scikar: Slasher and Exec are 88tc, not 89.
I think PEs could be nerfed by removing PA. Just get rid of it. They'd lose 5 dex and 12(?) or so pc/rc. That's enough to make slasher/exec/FL/Dis setups look very unattractive.
Scikar: Slasher and Exec are 88tc, not 89.
You're right. Not sure where I got confused over that.
Dribble Joy
18-06-04, 01:23
Removing PA fucks up all PEs, not just the high tech ones. Removing the main stat bonus MIGHT help, but again, it could and probably weould nerf the low techers.
Improving the lower lvl guns (bs/libby/pe/rog/judge) and drawing people away from extreme druggage and trying to be spies is a better solution.
A setup base on 3 drugs isnt a setup... your useful for what... 5 minutes? what do you do in a REAL fight, say, raiding MB, and the mercs keep comming out wave after wave, or vise versa, defending mb, and your fighting on and off for an hour? a 3 drug setup doesnt cut it. 2 drugs is too many too.
PEs shouldnt be able to use anything over TL 105 effectively but there is no way of stopping them other then to nerf PEs or make drugs basically useless or to stick a spy class req on anything higher, all 3 are things that shouldnt be done.
Non-heavy drugging PEs suffer because they are underpowered whereas heavy druggers are over powered.
Xantor if PEs were more overpowered then the old hybrids you would still say that they were fine.
Oh god still talking about this?
My PE does not use drugs drugs are a total waste of time imo cost too much and if you get drugs flash in the middle of a fight your fucked simple as that. But if people want to drug then let them FFS leave the PE's alone they need a boost not another fucking nerf . My PE is not super woman never will be never was but I can fight pretty well with what I got skillfully PE's are not overpowered simple as that.
Any good tank would break my legs and rip me to bits with there CS go on fight some of the good tanks on saturn see how quick you lose :rolleyes:
Eledhbrant
18-06-04, 05:57
Whats this breaking legs thing you speak of LiL T? I've never heard of it before :p
Whats this breaking legs thing you speak of LiL T? I've never heard of it before :p
haha :lol:
Yeah eled's tank is one of the biggest leg breaking whores fight him he broke my legs every fight he breaks every pe's legs and they die :(
Well if you've always had a lowtech pe theres nothing wrong with them. :wtf:
Oh god still talking about this?
Any good tank would break my legs and rip me to bits with there CS go on fight some of the good tanks on saturn see how quick you lose :rolleyes:
Umm most pluto tanks are better because they play 1 char all the time no going from apu to pe to tank unless you buy 3 acounts.
nah i dont want to see drugs limited, if a PE wants to take 5 drugs at once to fight, great go for it, enjoy the drug flash afterwards
ha what flash ? buy the book: how to get rid of flashes in 30 seconds
Underground
18-06-04, 08:44
PE's are fine, if you dont believe me, then go fight people like jest, cassius, draven etc on pluto...
Jest uses a Judge, TL100
Cassius uses a TL98 ROG
Draven uses a Termi
All main weps under TL100
None of them use PA
see where im going ?
a PE is probably the hardest class to get a good setup on imo, they are limited in points for CON, have OK strength, but to get a great setup on a PE requires no wasted points... maybe you just gotta go check your setups and maybe lom a little if losing stealth has fucked you over so much :\
ha what flash ? buy the book: how to get rid of flashes in 30 seconds
you mean the one where you relog :rolleyes:
Umm most pluto tanks are better because they play 1 char all the time no going from apu to pe to tank unless you buy 3 acounts.
dont talk shit
PEs shouldnt be able to use anything over TL 105 effectively but there is no way of stopping them other then to nerf PEs or make drugs basically useless or to stick a spy class req on anything higher, all 3 are things that shouldnt be done.
Non-heavy drugging PEs suffer because they are underpowered whereas heavy druggers are over powered.
Xantor if PEs were more overpowered then the old hybrids you would still say that they were fine.
so, PE shouldnt be able to use anything higher than tl 105 right ? dude , we're living in the period of specializing shit, stay serious ur suggestions are just counterproductive
and right there is no effective way to stop that, why ? because that suggestion is stupid ;)
snow, im playing every class, and im able to stay impartial in things called balance unlike u it seems...
@vettero, my setup bases on 4 drugs, im using them all time, i never use less,even at op fight and i can tell u, there is a resistance against drugs, if u use them very often. im still at the same opinion since there is specializing illusion. Non-drug PEs are just ineffective
Angel Xenia
18-06-04, 14:01
make Dex weapons 110+ Spy only
and Termi PE only
PE's are fine, if you dont believe me, then go fight people like jest, cassius, draven etc on pluto...
Sorry, you can't use a few unique examples as proof that the PE as a class is alright. Going by that logic I could say that tanks are completely overpowered because of some amazing tanks on saturn.
Now, personally I don't feel that theres a problem with tanks, or with most PEs, except for the slasher/exe PEs. RoLH was one thing...
@vettero, my setup bases on 4 drugs, im using them all time, i never use less,even at op fight and i can tell u, there is a resistance against drugs, if u use them very often. im still at the same opinion since there is specializing illusion. Non-drug PEs are just ineffective
This, is exactly why the drugged PEs can't just be nerfed. That's why the TL<100 weapons need some boosting before PEs are taken off TL>100 weapons, but it should still happen eventually IMO. PEs and Spies should be separated, but forcing all PEs to play underpowered setups is the wrong way to go.
@Underground: That doesn't prove anything. You put Jest up against an average Tank and he wins. Why? Because he's above average. Doesn't prove anything about the class. I keep meaning to go see Jest at Fight Night, but to be completely honest I haven't seen any Tanks on Pluto who have the skill to show the difference between the classes against him. I'm not saying they don't exist at all, but people like Fenix have LoMmed to melee etc. and I haven't seen some of the other names I keep hearing in action, like EvilEye.
YES YES YES! At last someone wiv brains
Umm most pluto tanks are better because they play 1 char all the time no going from apu to pe to tank unless you buy 3 acounts.
Thats a nice theory but its bullshit and pluto arrogance.
so, PE shouldnt be able to use anything higher than tl 105 right ? dude , we're living in the period of specializing shit, stay serious ur suggestions are just counterproductive
and right there is no effective way to stop that, why ? because that suggestion is stupid ;)
snow, im playing every class, and im able to stay impartial in things called balance unlike u it seems...
@vettero, my setup bases on 4 drugs, im using them all time, i never use less,even at op fight and i can tell u, there is a resistance against drugs, if u use them very often. im still at the same opinion since there is specializing illusion. Non-drug PEs are just ineffective
PEs have turned into mini-spies basically using what were defined as spy weapons, before SAs and PE PA it was unusual to see a PE even using a RoG or a Judge and nobody screamed that they were under powered and now they are using weapons that are much stronger by comparison with no real loss of defense other then maybe a little body health because you cant put in a move on.
We are living in a period of specialisation but have been for over a year now and in that time PEs have moved 15 to 30 tls higher in main weapon usage and are effectively spies with no stealth and better resists.
Non-drug PEs arent infective just not as effective.
Spy is the way better trader
c there is the point u re another person that thinks just one sided pure one sided, u say that PE can use the "spys' weapons" as good as a spy does, errr wrong :wtf: they dont and u forget that spies are able to have high tradeskills, u simply cry for unbalance, dont u notice it ?
Spy is the way better trader
c there is the point u re another person that thinks just one sided pure one sided, u say that PE can use the "spys' weapons" as good as a spy does, errr wrong :wtf: they dont and u forget that spies are able to have high tradeskills, u simply cry for unbalance, dont u notice it ?
Actually PEs turn out to be as good constructers, pokers, reppers recyclers and hackers the only tradeskill that spies are better at is researching.
What does being able to tradeskill have to do with pvp balance anyway or do you just believe that spies should only tradeskill and hack ops?
Where did I say that PEs use high tl weapons as good as spies?I also said what were defined as spy weapons not that they were spy weapons.
If you actually played and capped a spy you would know that those last 20 levels actually dont give that much advantage them much advantage over a PEs.
PEs shouldnt be able to use every rare in a given weapon class because they are meant to be average citizens that dont excel in every area, yet need to be balanced so that they arent underpowered towards other classes either but balanceing doesnt mean having the ability to use every rare.
PEs shouldnt be able to use every rare in a given weapon class because they are meant to be average citizens that dont excel in every area, yet need to be balanced so that they arent underpowered towards other classes either but balanceing doesnt mean having the ability to use every rare.
I mostly agree with this, but I think with one difference. A PE should be able to use a slasher, but I don't think they should be able to get 178% dmg on it, unless they are painfully slow.
Perhaps the solution would be to drastically reduce the amount of agility and athletics that red and white give?
I keep meaning to go see Jest at Fight Night, but to be completely honest I haven't seen any Tanks on Pluto who have the skill to show the difference between the classes against him. Pretty much the best tanks IVe fought are Tupac (when the other guy is playing him, cant think of the name for some reason, probably cause hes always on Tupac :p), Kayne, and Onoz. They provide some pretty good fights at least with me. But even so an equal level tank will ALWAYS beat an equal level PE. For example Im fairly even with my PE against Jack Drake on his PE, but if I play my friends 50/55 Gentank, I beat him 2 out of 3 fights because plan and simple the tank is better. I play the PE not to win, but because I like the style of him. Else Id be a tank. ;)
I'd still say no to the drug thing though. Personally I only use a single drug so it doesnt affect me, but the thing is you cant just give one class a drug restriction and not the others. If anything drug flash should happen to an extent after each drug wears. (If my 5 minute one wears I should get a minor flash even though I still have a 10 minute one running).
Also just a side note on the comment Tostino made about multiple characters, it seems to true to a certain extent. Playing more with a single class will get you better for playing that class. But then again, my aim improved a lot after being a devoted PPU for a few months so its not necessarily the case. But in either case I think Tostino could kick most tanks asses on any server because he is a *coughs* overpowered *coughs* RoG PE.
why pick on the most nerfed class?
*slap*
.... the MONK is the most nerfed class..
The PEs do NOT need a fix.
Spies need a slight boost (not much, but a little), Tanks need their speed back or more damage.
End of story, game balanced.
Clownst0pper
18-06-04, 17:40
*slap*
.... the MONK is the most nerfed class..
The PEs do NOT need a fix.
Spies need a slight boost (not much, but a little), Tanks need their speed back or more damage.
End of story, game balanced.
I actually agree, although the pistol PE has zero use in this game, unlike its rifle counterpart, which are great in OP wars :rolleyes:
I'd still say no to the drug thing though. Personally I only use a single drug so it doesnt affect me, but the thing is you cant just give one class a drug restriction and not the others. If anything drug flash should happen to an extent after each drug wears. (If my 5 minute one wears I should get a minor flash even though I still have a 10 minute one running).
I never said only PEs should have this restriction, but you'll note that very few others multidrug. Something like this wouldn't be limited to PEs, but PEs would be the most affected class.
As far as the other thing you mentioned, I know it seems odd, but playing a combat PPU seems to improve your skill with every other class as well, with the possible exception of hc tanks. The person you were referring to that plays Tupac is Skuld.
I have yet to encounter a tank that needed to be faster.
Thats a copout for not having skills. (edit, i shouldn't say skills literaly, I meant setup)
Tanks are just as fast as Rifle PEs o_O
I have yet to encounter a tank that needed to be faster.
Thats a copout for not having skills. (edit, i shouldn't say skills literaly, I meant setup)
Tanks are just as fast as Rifle PEs o_O
So you would say that :
A tank with a setup and a player with his/her skills fighting.. doing well.. running at an acceptable speed....
suddenly loses all skills, when...
That very same tank, with that very same setup, loses half itīs runspeed, and with that, the very ability to dodge, or get a good angle of attack, or gain range during a battle.....
If that is the case.. then I would like to have every class lose half itīs runspeed.. and see how many people think that the runspeed has been lowered far too much, and how many actually believe that every skill that player possessed had just suddenly vanished, from the time a patching session started till it had been completed.
ok, I don't know what you're talking about.
A tank with his cannon out is just as fast as a PE with his Rifle out. End of my statement.
That is the biggest lie ever told...
I would believe MJS if he said DoY came out more, than that statement.. simply because I logged in only a few hours ago.. and found my tank still slow as fuck..
He is as fast as a PE with a rifle out yes.... When he doesnt have gun out..
The second the gun getīs pulled... He is basically a turret..
He is as fast as a PE with a rifle out yes.... When he doesnt have gun out..
The second the gun getīs pulled... He is basically a turret..
The fact that he was slow before you pulled the gun out, shows you just aint got enough agil/athl.
Pretty much the best tanks IVe fought are Tupac (when the other guy is playing him, cant think of the name for some reason, probably cause hes always on Tupac :p), Kayne, and Onoz. They provide some pretty good fights at least with me. But even so an equal level tank will ALWAYS beat an equal level PE. For example Im fairly even with my PE against Jack Drake on his PE, but if I play my friends 50/55 Gentank, I beat him 2 out of 3 fights because plan and simple the tank is better. I play the PE not to win, but because I like the style of him. Else Id be a tank. ;)
Which is exactly my point. Tank beats a <100 DEX PE because CS is balanced to Slasher/Exec. Spies with Slasher/Exec are balanced with Tanks. So nerfing Slasher/Exec or nerfing CS is the wrong way to go. Solution is make <100 DEX PEs more viable, and >100 DEX PEs for shits and giggles rather than the ideal setup.
The fact that he was slow before you pulled the gun out, shows you just aint got enough agil/athl.
agil / athl means nothing when the gun gets pulled..
agil / athl means nothing when the gun gets pulled
Wrong
Wrong
then prove to me, why a tank with 80 atl, and 140 agl runs as fast as a tank with 45 atl and 115 agl, with gun out.. explain to me, why using speed drugs only make you run faster on your own screen and not on other peoples screens..
I have played a tank almost since I started playing this game.. I should know what influences my tanks movement and not.
I have had that super speed setup once.. with 100 atl and 140 agl.. guess what.. it made no difference at all when i took it down to 45 atl and 115 agl..
no difference at all
Which is exactly my point. Tank beats a <100 DEX PE because CS is balanced to Slasher/Exec. Spies with Slasher/Exec are balanced with Tanks. So nerfing Slasher/Exec or nerfing CS is the wrong way to go. Solution is make <100 DEX PEs more viable, and >100 DEX PEs for shits and giggles rather than the ideal setup.I dunno, Id definitely like to see spies only be able to use those high end weapons, but personally Ive dueled Techi twice at FN on his Slasher PE and while they were ridiculously close fights (and we ended up banning heal from PE fights afterward :p), he didnt seem overpowered or anything. The original example he gave of fighting multiple enemies isnt just because he used a slasher. Sometimes a single target is just too much of a match for groups because its often hard to target a single player. I'm not sure who mentioned it in this thread, but Id LOVE to see PE PA 1) lose the dex gain, and 2) lose the psi loss. Itd basically be resists/weapon with the mental steadiness loss, and thatd be awesome and would at the same time hinder PEs from using high level stuff.
And btw to say tanks need more runspeed or more damage is mindbogglingly absurd. Thats like saying PPUs need a better Holy Heal. :p
AGL/ATH means everything regardless of whether weapon is drawn or not. I'm so sick of the complaining from one person only that Tank runspeed has been nerfed that I logged in now to check it. I have 108 AGL and 70 ATH, taking a redflash doesn't provide a noticable increase so I assume it to be capped. With CS drawn I slow down by 10-15%, nothing more. KK didn't mention anything in their patch notes, only one person has claimed there has been a nerf, and KK haven't released any notes afterwards saying Tanks have been nerf. So based on the tests I just did, I'm 99.99% certain there was no nerf.
EDIT: @Jest: I don't mean any offense or anything, but Techi's setup leaves a lot to be desired. I might LoM to use HL on Pluto and then give you a duel, and see what you think then. :)
Scikar I know what I saw...
I know how my tank has reacted to it...
And I know that it is there...
It is not the first time there has been unexpected side effects of changes to the game..
GIVE HIGH TECH WEAPONS A INT REQ...
Me and few ppl spoke about this ages ago..... its the perfect solution.
DW ultil u hit like dex 88, then give the weapons a dex req.
MAke it so PEs have no chance of ex/slasher and gimage to use lkike BoH/RoLH.
Its perfect. If they nerf for dex its hard to get int.
I mean not possible even with 3 int drugs (if ur wasted cresent tabs then sure u can use it)
I literally just tested it 2 minutes ago to be absolutely sure. There is no nerf. If you're running slowly I suggest you pop a redflash and compare, because I would never settle for less than 50 ATH. When I put PA on my tank, I can SEE the slowdown, and that's only from 70 ATH to 50 ATH.
GIVE HIGH TECH WEAPONS A INT REQ...
Me and few ppl spoke about this ages ago..... its the perfect solution.
DW ultil u hit like dex 88, then give the weapons a dex req.
MAke it so PEs have no chance of ex/slasher and gimage to use lkike BoH/RoLH.
Its perfect. If they nerf for dex its hard to get int.
I mean not possible even with 3 int drugs (if ur wasted cresent tabs then sure u can use it) lol. Thats actually a good idea I didnt even think of that. :p
then prove to me, why a tank with 80 atl, and 140 agl runs as fast as a tank with 45 atl and 115 agl, with gun out.. explain to me, why using speed drugs only make you run faster on your own screen and not on other peoples screens..
I have played a tank almost since I started playing this game.. I should know what influences my tanks movement and not.
I have had that super speed setup once.. with 100 atl and 140 agl.. guess what.. it made no difference at all when i took it down to 45 atl and 115 agl..
no difference at all
that's because there's very little difference when agility is still that high. Try dropping it to 80 or so with your 45 atl, and you'll be stapled to the floor with a gun out.
@Jest: with regard to you and me dueling, yes, they were ridiculously close fights...at least the first one was. It should also be pointed out, however, that my aim is shite, whereas your's is not. =P
@Scikar: "EDIT: @Jest: I don't mean any offense or anything, but Techi's setup leaves a lot to be desired."....In what way am I gimpy?
I literally just tested it 2 minutes ago to be absolutely sure. There is no nerf. If you're running slowly I suggest you pop a redflash and compare, because I would never settle for less than 50 ATH. When I put PA on my tank, I can SEE the slowdown, and that's only from 70 ATH to 50 ATH.
Donīt you think I have tested it ??
I have sat with 2 computers next to eachother, in the same room.. looking at myself run.
there was no runspeed increase from when i just ran, and when I popped :
Whiteflash + Redflash + Beast
Thatīs 3 speed drugs..
no runspeed increase, anywhere except on my own screen.
I have tested it over and over and over..
I have tested it on my own machine.... I have tested it on these 2 computers, and I have tested it with several people...
And with weapon drawn?
there was no runspeed change at all..
neither with gun out or in.
It was only on my screen it looked like I was running insanely fast.. like playing quake 1 with fov 160..
but on the other screens... it was same speed.
It was purely clientside.
And it was tested over a timespan of a week.. so it was not a one time occurance.. and it is still there.
And how much did you slow down by when drawing a weapon? In my test just now, I slowed down by 10-15%, nothing more.
And how much did you slow down by when drawing a weapon? In my test just now, I slowed down by 10-15%, nothing more.
I would say somewhere close to 40-50 %
Well, I have stuff to do now so I can't test more. But I haven't seen anyone else who has seen problems with runspeed apart from you. So the best thing you can do is find other people who are experiencing it too and see to go from there. Because at the moment it just sounds like you're bugged or something. If nothing's changed at all for me, and everyone else I've spoken to, I highly doubt there's been a nerf, especially a stealth nerf which hasn't been documented or acknowledged.
@Scikar: "EDIT: @Jest: I don't mean any offense or anything, but Techi's setup leaves a lot to be desired."....In what way am I gimpy? Do you feel my resists are too low?
Shadow Dancer
18-06-04, 19:03
lol. Thats actually a good idea I didnt even think of that. :p
OMG me neither. Simple and effective.
Wow, that INT req idea sounds interesting. I can't say Iv fought a hightech Pistol PE using one of the contested guns though.
Dribble Joy
18-06-04, 19:10
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Interesting, though high tech/tl users have generally higher int than the others.
Sa, SF, balli 3 and an exp reflex4 is +11 int alone.
Int 60 for judge
Int 65 for BoH
Int 70 for RoLH
Int 80 for exec
Int 90 for slasher?
@Scikar: "EDIT: @Jest: I don't mean any offense or anything, but Techi's setup leaves a lot to be desired."....In what way am I gimpy? Do you feel my resists are too low?I won't go into specifics, but there are a few ways to get higher resists and higher HP. Also whiteflash is a 5 min drug, which is more difficult to manage than the 10 min drugs. Finally, the both the implant and armor setup aren't as point efficient as they could be. Given that your fights with Jest are close now, it's possible to get a major advantage with a few tweaks to the setup (but I'm not going to say exactly what they are).
EDIT: Also, only the raw armor values and HP are reliable in that version of the skillmanager, so it's best to quote those rather than the damage % with shelter, since the skillmanager tends to get a bit screwy with that.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Interesting, though high tech/tl users have generally higher int than the others.
Sa, SF, balli 3 and an exp reflex4 is +11 int alone.
Int 60 for judge
Int 65 for BoH
Int 70 for RoLH
Int 80 for exec
Int 90 for slasher?Numbers look pretty good to me. Basically that would limit PEs to a RoLh and even then itd be a bit o gimpage. Similiar numbers could be drawn up for the rifles. Some one send Lupus a PM. :p
Dribble Joy
18-06-04, 20:03
As it stands there is little gimpage (other than drugging) in using a slesher/exec, their defences being not much different from a rolh, a BoH or even a high rof judge user.
Creating a need for extra int could also force people to forgo the expreflexs for dexboosters, which could lower thier str to the point they are using lvl1 inq.
Sure you could drug with Blue fairy, but christ, two-three drugs just to keep your gun active. Not to mention the cost.
Liebestoter
18-06-04, 20:37
And when KK had applied the fifth patch, I saw under the PP1 guard's feet the quickbelts of those that were slain by the obscenely overpowered PEs due to their ability to use every freaking gun in the game while running away and healing themselves.
And they who had respawned at the P2 genrep cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Dammit, MJS, how long until this crap stops? Whether it's a Judge or Executioner PE, I keep getting my ass handed to me."
Edit: Actually screw it I'll just make a new thread with some voting action. :D
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