Deemphasizing items…

[RayBob]

I realize there are some people who feel items should be very rare and difficult to acquire. I disagree. There are literally a dozen MMOs which put a heavy emphasis on rare and unique items. I like to think that Neocron is different—with an emphasis on skill-based PvP and not item-based PvP.

Nearly every single tank has his CS and every APU his Holy Lightning. So what? I think it is great that it only takes a new player a matter of months or even weeks to cap his character and acquire his weapons.

Unfortunately, I feel KK is starting to emulate the traditional MMO’s dungeon camping strategy for acquiring some of the high-end items. I think it is a mistake. They need to stop trying to make it harder and harder for people to get what they need. Stop emphasizing items and do more to develop what is the best and most unique aspect of Neocron—PvP combat. I hear it again and again from returning players: “No other MMO has a combat system as good as Neocron.”

In particular, the 2 areas I refer to are the 3rd level of the DoY tunnels and MC5.

The final level of the DoY tunnels is extremely challenging. That’s fine. The mobs drop very valuable loot. That’s fine. However, don’t make their loot unique. Ultima mod and slot enhancer parts should be returned to the loot tables of normal mobs. Allow strong teams to obtain them as complete items but also allow individuals to build them from parts as before.

MC5...where do I begin. That place is a joke. Sure it’s doable but it is a chore that people want to get out of the way as soon as possible. The goal of a game should be fun. When I log on in the evening and decide to go hunt some WBs, I don’t expect to be told “Sorry, WBs are busy. Get in line.” Camping one single spot for unique loot is exactly what most MMOs do and what Neocron needs to avoid.

There has to be a better way. I wouldn’t mind if the entire MC5 sector was deleted. The MC5 parts should drop from Y-Reps and Y-Reps should be added to a few more zones. Hunting Y-reps for MC5 parts would be much more fun that camping that one ridiculous room.

From the Announcements forum : “MC5 has been closed off due to a bug that is causing an exploit with how the guards react to runners.” and “As this bug has now been fixed on the Test Server, Area MC5 will reopen with the upcoming retail patch.” MC5 was closed simply to fix a bug. Why was it redesigned also? Why is KK emphasizing making it harder and harder for people to get their items? If MC5 chips dropped out of the sky in Plaza 1, the game would not be damaged. You all know that an MC5 chip is not going to help you win a fight if you have inferior skill.

In my opinion, KK is spending way too much time worrying about items and too little on the more important aspects of the game.

[Judge]

*****

I agree.

I would add some very intelligent remark, but I have a headache. So I won't.

[DonnyJepp]

I sure enjoy hunting Y-Reps in the zone north of Mcpherson, that is a real kick. I bet now that they call for help again that it is real tough. When the mobs were busted for 6 months we got pretty comfortable just taking 1 or 2 of them at a time.

They should also bring back the Larent hoverbots or some kind of equivilant big-daddy hoverbot, and the Kamikazi's too. 1 Kami should always be present in the northeastern sectors.

Someone told me that there is a source for Tiger's Blood and the Crescent Tabs on Venus now, and that there seems to be quite a bit of it around. If I recall, Venus only went live after the Larent storyline occurred in January of 2003, so how is it possible that those items even exist on Venus?

[VetteroX]

Ive said this before, and I TOTALY agree. Items should be easy to get, and it should be up to your skill and char setup in a fight, not items. If you want to hunt for ages to find some uber item, find another game, dont wreck this one.

[jiga]

You still need rare items as something to do when your bored. Ultra rare items I don't really think shuld exist because it gives the people who have too much time on their hands an advantage.

[Judge]

However. I think that there CAN be a compromise.

Make very rare items that do require camping or whatever. BUT they have no effect on PvP whatsoever. Make them rare appartments, or rare non-combat vehicles or special rare outfits. Stuff like that, which is cool, but has no effect on PvP.

EDIT: Oh and get rid of the APC economy. Sucks.

[RayBob]

...Make them rare appartments, or rare non-combat vehicles or special rare outfits. Stuff like that, which is cool, but has no effect on PvP.The idea of rare apartments sounds cool. Not sure what they would have. Maybe more storage, a private holodeck, no SI to GR into it, etc. Maybe that should be what you get from the Strange Books (assuming they can ever fix the drop rate to make them truly rare). Just add the Terminator to the tech pool and be done with it.

[DonnyJepp]

However. I think that there CAN be a compromise.

Make very rare items that do require camping or whatever. BUT they have no effect on PvP whatsoever. Make them rare appartments, or rare non-combat vehicles or special rare outfits. Stuff like that, which is cool, but has no effect on PvP.

EDIT: Oh and get rid of the APC economy. Sucks.


I like the fact that I can take my stack of entirely earned-by-hunting vehicle 10s and make APCs out of them to supplement my income, I have a couple hundred on hand that I've acquired the hard way, by slaughtering warbots for months. Take away my ability to do some value-add to those and I will be pretty hurt feelings.

The only way I see to fix that would be to make the #10 vehicle, weapon, and armorparts drop-only and non constructable. Not the most elegant solution but it would still have the desired effect.

I agree with Vett also, 8| :p and I think that adding slotenhancers as whole items to the drop pool with medium frequency would help us get out of this batch construction required mindset. I've always said that it was BS that a capped pure constructor can't guarantee any number of slots, that is completely unrealistic. In the real world (heh tenuous I know) when you seek out a master craftsman and pay top dollar for something, he doesn't take FIFTY ATTEMPTS to make you a nice (insert whatever item you pay top dollar for).

[Candaman]

You still need rare items as something to do when your bored. Ultra rare items I don't really think shuld exist because it gives the people who have too much time on their hands an advantage.

it also gives people with too much time on their hands something to do in this boring game

[MisterP]

*****

Agree with most of it, and Y-Rep MC5 bit for definite ;)

[Judge]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]The idea of rare apartments sounds cool. Not sure what they would have. Maybe more storage, a private holodeck, no SI to GR into it, etc.

Hehe, yeah. That sort of stuff.

I think that I'm going to write up a list of cool things which could be used as campable rare items but don't effect PvP.

Btw, those DoY eyes are a good example of relatively rare items that don't effect PvP.

[ezza]

was gonna write something that to the people above who are clearly bored with the game, however cant be arsed so ill just say i agree with what Vet said

[Menolak]

I sure enjoy hunting Y-Reps in the zone north of Mcpherson, that is a real kick. I bet now that they call for help again that it is real tough. When the mobs were busted for 6 months we got pretty comfortable just taking 1 or 2 of them at a time.

They should also bring back the Larent hoverbots or some kind of equivilant big-daddy hoverbot, and the Kamikazi's too. 1 Kami should always be present in the northeastern sectors.

Someone told me that there is a source for Tiger's Blood and the Crescent Tabs on Venus now, and that there seems to be quite a bit of it around. If I recall, Venus only went live after the Larent storyline occurred in January of 2003, so how is it possible that those items even exist on Venus?

If you play on Venus, DM me, I'll hook you up with Crescent Tabs, I've got a source...

[ResurgencE]

Agreed.

5 stars.

[Judge]

Heres a short list that I thoguht up in about 10 minutes. Some of them have been thought of before by other people eg: the "Exoskeleton Armour".

Rare non PvP items:

Rare apartments:
Personal Neofrag
Display cabinets (show one item model placed inside)
No SI for GR in
10+ cabinets
Roof gardens
Personal NPCs, traders etc
Security systems (turrets etc)
Pets

Rare clothing

Rare vehicles:
Hovertech v.2: Holds two people
Hoverboard (come on, you know you want it)
Hoverboots: Allows you to move like a drone, but takes -200 from all combat skills. Are useable in the city.

Rare mods:
New colour projectiles (plasma + laser only)

'Map name Neofrag mod' which, when in inventory, allows extra Neofrag maps. Like OP zones etc?

Law enforcer v.2: Adds +5 to all combat skills (but is still also a Law Enforcer)

Tradeskill items:
Exoskeleton armour: Adds to your transport, but takes away from combat skills (like machine glove)
Tradeskill bones: Similar to machine gloves

[tomparadox]

5 star


However. I think that there CAN be a compromise.

Make very rare items that do require camping or whatever. BUT they have no effect on PvP whatsoever. Make them rare appartments, or rare non-combat vehicles or special rare outfits. Stuff like that, which is cool, but has no effect on PvP.

EDIT: Oh and get rid of the APC economy. Sucks. yes, maby some rare items that arnt weapons/pvp related, and dont come from epics. a rare appartment might have more caps, 2 or 3 floors, you could make diferent versions of a rare appartment, like lvl 1 - 3. maby even your own safe room, or "Panic room" like in the movie if youv ever seen it. or a vult that holds all the cabs and an armed guard standing at its door that takes over your faction when you activate the appartmentor when you talk to the guard, dont tell me its not possible because they did it on TS with a copbot, you talk to him and he would follow you around and sudenly become TG if you are TG, i had some gr8 screens of that, lost them in a HD crash though :/, anyway, and the lvl of the guard could depend on the lvl off the appartment, IE, lvl 1 could be 60/60 lvl 2 80/80 and lvl 3 100/100. lvl 3 would be the rares, and make the guards powerfull so they cant be exploited by the owner or anyone else...

as for the rare car it could have a rare car like a race car, 1 seeted, but gos fast, or a 2 seet version that gos fast...

howbout helping out tradeskillers? maby rare poke tool that dosent brake as easaly, or uses less STA, or gives a bones to pokeing. or a rare CST tool, TL 200 or 250 and it could incress the chanse for slots on rare items and non rare items. rare items would get more of an increes, sens you cant, or should not be able to get enuf parts at one time to make 100 of them at once to get a 5 sloted, and non rares less of a bones to the chanse sens people sit there and make like IE 100 TPCs at once to get a 5 sloted...

a rare research tool could incress the speed, and chance of succesfuly identifying the part, or if your makeing a BP of IE crahn holy rezz, it could increes the reseach time.

edit:


Heres a short list that I thoguht up in about 10 minutes. Some of them have been thought of before by other people eg: the "Exoskeleton Armour".

Rare non PvP items:

Rare apartments:
Personal Neofrag
Display cabinets (show one item model placed inside)
No SI for GR in
10+ cabinets
Roof gardens
Personal NPCs, traders etc
Security systems (turrets etc)
Pets

Rare clothing

Rare vehicles:
Hovertech v.2: Holds two people
Hoverboard (come on, you know you want it)
Hoverboots: Allows you to move like a drone, but takes -200 from all combat skills. Are useable in the city.

Rare mods:
New colour projectiles (plasma + laser only)

'Map name Neofrag mod' which, when in inventory, allows extra Neofrag maps. Like OP zones etc?

Law enforcer v.2: Adds +5 to all combat skills (but is still also a Law Enforcer)

Tradeskill items:
Exoskeleton armour: Adds to your transport, but takes away from combat skills (like machine glove)
Tradeskill bones: Similar to machine gloves
that sounds like it could be cool...