Dear KK, is it possible to... [Archive]

Ozambabbaz

10-06-04, 21:59

change the synchronization process so that i do not enter the zone untill i'm synched in with the zone?

This is probably the most annoying thing about this game, dying, unable to do anything. It is quite possible to lose the equivalent of 1 months gametime due to this. After patch 199 specifically in my case, the amounts of "failed worldsynchs" when entering caves and undergrounds, or exciting these, have increased by 50%+

MisterP

10-06-04, 22:21

Where do u live?
Connection, PC Spec etc?

(agree with ur first line though ;) )

SilentEye

10-06-04, 22:33

I made no sense, I really didn't!
removed

Ozambabbaz

10-06-04, 22:49

Where do u live?
Connection, PC Spec etc?

(agree with ur first line though ;) )

Living in Aarhus, Denmark, theres approx 200 Kms to the german border, i get routed via Copenhagen->Paris->Germany. I'm on a 100Mbit cable, specs are

Barton core 2500+, 400FSB
512mb@400mhz
Albatron KX18d Pro
N-Force 2 SPP/MCP-T
Sapphire 9600
40 gig seagate
Enermax cab+PSU

WinXP SP1 all drivers upped, custom GFX drivers

rob444

10-06-04, 22:57

100mbit, good to know it's not my connection causing these long synchs then ;)

I have to agree though, you should only enter zone when you've completed synchronizing.

Ozambabbaz

10-06-04, 23:00

i must point out that a 100mbit line is often as good as a 512/512 due to the infrastucture of teh intarweb (or vice versa)

Maarten

11-06-04, 00:01

Exploitable... You could press ESC or ALT+F4 when you are zoning when somebody's chasing you and you will be instantly gone.

ezza

11-06-04, 00:37

change the synchronization process so that i do not enter the zone untill i'm synched in with the zone?
proberbly the one and only time we will agree on something

question, but where is your body going to be while your zoneing

MisterP

11-06-04, 02:19

Living in Aarhus, Denmark, theres approx 200 Kms to the german border, i get routed via Copenhagen->Paris->Germany. I'm on a 100Mbit cable, specs are

Barton core 2500+, 400FSB
512mb@400mhz
Albatron KX18d Pro
N-Force 2 SPP/MCP-T
Sapphire 9600
40 gig seagate
Enermax cab+PSU

WinXP SP1 all drivers upped, custom GFX drivers

Bloody Hell

Should have put that in ur original post m8 (thought u might have had some shit 600Mhz PC in the US or something :angel: )

The Doy hardware upgrade better be fuckin worth the wonga we'll all be forking out

Benjie

11-06-04, 02:22

proberbly the one and only time we will agree on something

question, but where is your body going to be while your zoneing
It should still be there, only invisible, your name not on local, and invincible.

To all extents and perposes, your won't have spawned yet.

yavimaya

11-06-04, 07:40

It should still be there, only invisible, your name not on local, and invincible.

To all extents and perposes, your won't have spawned yet.

Thats exactly right, they current system is very user unfriendly.
The only real options to fix these issues is to use this idea, but as benjie stated.... or make the world seamless, which i cant see happening :P

If "sync'ing" is meant to be there, and they weren't just forced to use it.. then it really should be changed post haste! Under benjie's idea it may even get rid of the "death on sync crash" in pvp for good. It should also guarentee it for PVM as well.

ino

11-06-04, 13:47

They could solve the where is the body thing by using the reset points that are in some zones, in the air. When you lag and exit the outdoor cave outside TG you always see 0/0 noname default PE's hanging in the air and then for a millisec they get a name and warp off to the cave entrance. So if you zone in to a zone the reset point should be high up in the air and when sync is done warp you to the zone border where you came in.

Only trouble is that cave has a fixed space in the world where the zoneing is, a zone line between zones can be a whole zone in length, thus making it hard to remember exactly where you went in to the zone and where you should reapear.

rob444

11-06-04, 13:53

Exploitable... You could press ESC or ALT+F4 when you are zoning when somebody's chasing you and you will be instantly gone.

That could be simply fixed by making your character appear on the other side...

Plight

11-06-04, 16:50

I like the idea of maping op zones/ hunting grounds seemless.
The only reason i can think of for even having zones is to limit the bandwidth burden on the customers computer and split the world load over many servers. The amount of people in a op zone/ug or zone/hunting ground would rarely (if ever) rival the population of plaza 1 or plaza 2. So I wouldn't think there would be any adverse consequences.

msdong

11-06-04, 16:59

if you zoning suck after a patch you need to defrag. that allways helps me ...

but yes i still have that first start endless sync . i hate that.

Eddie

11-06-04, 17:52

If you did what Oz said.. then it would be exploitable, like someone above me has already said.

For example:

I, a level 0/2 newbie, chase the evil capped Oz with a nasty 5 slotted stiletto.
Oz.. fears for his life. And runs for the zone line, and zones.
I waddle along yelling threats.
Oz.. because he is SO scared, decides to switch his computer off whilst synchronizing. He does not appear on the other side.
I zone a few seconds later, and he is gone.
" 'SPLOIT".. I shout. And go and find some one else to bully.

As it stands now, Oz would zone, and if he switched his computer off, he still appears on the other side, for a few seconds at least. I slash him to bits. And laugh evil-ly.

I was thinking about how to overcome this.. but can't.
One idea, not the most elegant one, is a timeout.
The server waits for the "fully synched" message from the client before spawning him in the world, or waits for .. say ... a minute, and spawns him anyway.

This wouldn't be *worse* than anything we have at the moment, it just simply gives those who crash/lag out for that crucial time a bit of a chance.
Not the best idea, but like I said, no worse, except that you die a minute or so later, if you were going to do so anyway.

Eddie

rob444

11-06-04, 17:57

Eddie

11-06-04, 18:04

Eddie that was a very bad example, 0/2, how can he be 0/2 with 5 slot stiletto, wtf! :D

Anyway, it can be fixed, simply make the character appear on the other side when he logs, you got plenty of time to have sex with him and kill him afterwards. If you are at an appropiate level and not under 40 I guess :o

But how would the server know he's logged??

If you ALT+F4 or even switch your computer off at the mains (a bit extreme admittedly.. but you know what some people are like :P) - the server wouldn't know if you logged or not - simply that it was not receiving any more "Message received" messages from the client.
And how would crashing (which we want to be safe from) be different to logging (which we wouldn't)?

Very hard problem.. very hard. Gotta have sacrifices, which we have now.
Preventing Exploits > Saving the innocent.

Oh.. and rob.. did I say I had the stilleto equipped? :P
Let's just say I was world reknowned for my stilleto... and Oz knew I had it.

Eddie

rob444

11-06-04, 18:12

It would know you logged off because you are no longer sending packets as you do to the neocron servers, hm how many is it, at least 2 packets a second I think. Sure, lags.. but it could be a time out.. And the fatal error on zone could also be worked around, the message is predefined, that is they've made that message so they can simply add some code in the error procedure, that makes the client send a string to the server that the client crashed and then the server disconnects the user automatically and the user wouldnt appear on the other side

Eddie

11-06-04, 18:16

It would know you logged off because you are no longer sending packets as you do to the neocron servers, hm how many is it, at least 2 packets a second I think.

That is quite right, but I mean how the server would tell the difference between someone crashed/lagging out (such as what this topic is states) - or someone taking advantage?

The answer, I believe is, you can't.

Eddie

EDIT: Damnit you edited your post. And I'm typing one handed whilst eating an ice cream.

...so they can simply add some code in the error procedure, that makes the client send a string to the server that the client crashed and then the server disconnects the user automatically and the user wouldnt appear on the other side

The definition of crashed is that your computer stops processing any instructions.

So how could it send the "I r teh crashed. Save meh" message? :)
And same with "I r 'sploiting. Make me suffer" message when you ALT+F4 or switch your computer. There's just no (easy) way to tell...

Eddie

rob444

11-06-04, 18:20

Eddie

11-06-04, 18:21

Eddie, when Neocron does something stupid, it jumps to a procedure that, lets say it's called error. In that procedure there is the messagebox that says "Fatal-Runtime error" and below that line there is maybe more than one code to terminate client.exe. In this procedure you could simply make the client send one last packet with data that says you just crashed.

Yes, I edit alot :P

Ahh.. fair point. I was thinking more of the crash which buggers-your-complete-computer-up-and-requires-a-hard-reset type crash.
But I 'spose that would work fine for fatals.
But you can't rely on it.. in case you do get one of the "bad" (much shorter :P) crashes.

Eddie

rob444

11-06-04, 18:25

Hehe, never had a bug which completely lock up the system though, but lately I've had this "crash" that just kicks me out to login screen without any messages and if I try to login I get "Fatal-runtime error" :(

Ozambabbaz

11-06-04, 18:28

Been thinking about it, and i don't know how to resolve it, don't have knowledge of the net-code, nor am i proficient in such.

But the "grace period" is something i think could be implemented as a switch. I mean one could set it at the log-in screen and everytime i would zone, there'd be the 30sec or 45sec or a full minute delay before i'm spawned on the other side. To prevent any exploitation, the log-out sequence would initiate after the grace period, thus being 30sec in the new zone if crashed/logged/resetted.

Or one could not set the switch on and simply play as now.

tomparadox

11-06-04, 18:34

That is quite right, but I mean how the server would tell the difference between someone crashed/lagging out (such as what this topic is states) - or someone taking advantage?

The answer, I believe is, you can't.

Eddie

EDIT: Damnit you edited your post. And I'm typing one handed whilst eating an ice cream. but what if it isent eather that caused you to log out? i remember 3 or 4 times i was zoneing, and the power jest radomly whent out, so i can be acused of exploiting if the power gos out while zoneing? yes i know its rare that that would happen, but it could...

edit: oh and yes, i get these damn crashes all the time now... hell, ill be siting there and crash, i crash about 70% more than i used to, i get more fatles, world synk crashes, hell, my NC client jest randomly turns itself off now O_o, its like a fatle, without an error msg O_o. ill be walking along and all of a suden the desktop shows up, i look at start, NC aint there, i hit crtl alt delet and click prosseses, client.exe aint there O_o. i also jest walk along and ill start synking, randomly...