View Full Version : Allied Vs Allied Faction
Maloch Octavia
09-06-04, 23:40
I need to vent this, it's really pissing me off...
What is this whole fascination with killing Allied Faction Runners?
Why does Reakktor not make the punishment for killing Allied, more severe?
Why can't people get a fucking grip on the politics of the situation, and stop taking things for granted, or doing things just because?
It's really starting to piss me off, that for the tenth time, I'm having to get poked because some jerk in an Allied Faction has decided to act like a dick.
Neutral, fine, Hostile, bring it on, but Allied?? Yet we can't defend ourselves without taking massive SL hits.... What's that all about? Because we actually care about SL and want to respect Reakktors shitty system, we can't defend ourselves when some dick with no respect decides to break the system?
Fucksake
i totally agree, a coupla days ago i GRed to the Battle Dome, and there was a Tank with a Dev sitting behind the GR, 2 either side with CS's and one outside with a Rav, plus a PPU to hack and Buff, ALL PP, killing ALL, and i was CA...didnt stand chance true, but if i had i woulda had -50 summink SL
BTW: this was saturn, i dont play saturn no more, i wonder why :p
I need to vent this, it's really pissing me off...
What is this whole fascination with killing Allied Faction Runners?
Why does Reakktor not make the punishment for killing Allied, more severe?
Why can't people get a fucking grip on the politics of the situation, and stop taking things for granted, or doing things just because?
It's really starting to piss me off, that for the tenth time, I'm having to get poked because some jerk in an Allied Faction has decided to act like a dick.
Neutral, fine, Hostile, bring it on, but Allied?? Yet we can't defend ourselves without taking massive SL hits.... What's that all about? Because we actually care about SL and want to respect Reakktors shitty system, we can't defend ourselves when some dick with no respect decides to break the system?
FucksakeWelcome to Neocron. :(
What server do you play?
--Stryfe
Shadow Dancer
09-06-04, 23:46
I agree. Their should be a serious serious penalty for killing allied factions unless it's between clans who declared war on each other.
I agree. Their should be a serious serious penalty for killing allied factions unless it's between clans who declared war on each other.But that would have a prerequisite of having a functional clanwar system.
--Stryfe
Maloch Octavia
09-06-04, 23:52
I'll add that so far, this is all happening to me on Saturn, and is confined to three Factions, which I wont identify.
I've played Neocron from the start, but since coming to Saturn, I've noticed this as a huge issue.
We need to have it addressed. Simple as that.
Dribble Joy
09-06-04, 23:56
With the SL/fac-symp system that is in place there is no real penalty.
Making guard reaction/GR access dependant on either your own fac symp or the fac symp of your clan (leader?), would help.
It sucks , like joining a neutral faction just so you can attack TH ........ but thats another matter entirely.
The game is full of things like that which piss me off .......... like not being able to punish someone who has just heisted your stash of WB junk you and your clan have been storing for the last 3 hours because they are allied.
They then don't do the right thing when you point out the fact they just act all smug when you try and RP the situation.
Oh well life goes on doesn't it.
I'll add that so far, this is all happening to me on Saturn, and is confined to three Factions, which I wont identify.
I've played Neocron from the start, but since coming to Saturn, I've noticed this as a huge issue.
We need to have it addressed. Simple as that.I'm willing to bet that one of those involved factions is Black Dragon...
Anyway, yes it is a huge issue on Saturn because certain groups simply don't seem to care that it's actually another human being also trying to have a good time that is on the other side of the screen.
--Stryfe
Dribble Joy
10-06-04, 00:10
like not being able to punish someone who has just heisted your stash of WB junk you and your clan have been storing for the last 3 hours because they are allied.
My clan has an open apt policy re. the clan apt, all can enter, unfortunately the level of trust got too high and one day the apt, which was by now full of multi slotted rares, implants, PAs and high lvl item parts, was emptied.
I still maintain the policy, but I never keep anything of value in there, only n00b weapons and equimpent, even the 'rare' bps are kept by the high ranked people.
Maloch Octavia
10-06-04, 00:14
I'm willing to bet that one of those involved factions is Black Dragon..
Give that man a prize! :(
Yes, Black Dragon, you useless, spineless fucks.
(You'd never know I'm really angry about this)
Here I am, fighting hand over fist to create N.a.P's with Hostile Faction Clans, to give us all a peaceful life....
Can someone tell me why I have to create N.a.P's with Allied Faction Clans?!?!
That's just going beyond stupid, it truly is.
It's always Battledome too, always Battledome!! That's merc territory, why aren't they doing more to defend it? Instead, the BD seem intent to sit and camp, and when you GR in, are Allied, and say, "Hey, just want to grab a vehicle and nip off for some hunting.." What happens? You get killed.
If you are bored, throw away your N.a.P's with Hostile Factions, and go and fucking fight, don't pick on those allied, because you know the response will be limited.
Give that man a prize! :(
Yes, Black Dragon, you useless, spineless fucks.
(You'd never know I'm really angry about this)
Here I am, fighting hand over fist to create N.a.P's with Hostile Faction Clans, to give us all a peaceful life....
Can someone tell me why I have to create N.a.P's with Allied Faction Clans?!?!
That's just going beyond stupid, it truly is.
It's always Battledome too, always Battledome!! That's merc territory, why aren't they doing more to defend it? Instead, the BD seem intent to sit and camp, and when you GR in, are Allied, and say, "Hey, just want to grab a vehicle and nip off for some hunting.." What happens? You get killed.
If you are bored, throw away your N.a.P's with Hostile Factions, and go and fucking fight, don't pick on those allied, because you know the response will be limited.Heh... I'm not too surprised that I was right. If it makes you feel any better, when I was Proto on one of my chars, I was also killed by Black Dragon twats. Come to the Fallen Angels. At least you can fight back without having to worry about SL penalties. Tsunami is a good one to fight them too, but it's a relatively small faction.
--Stryfe
landofcake
10-06-04, 00:22
OK ... i've really wanted to vent my feelings on this subject for quite a while. MkVenner will know how i feel about this since i've mentioned it on IRC.
IT RUINS THE GAME
This is the exact reason i do NOT play on Saturn. Sadly i used to play there when i was a newer player , and hadn't really seen other servers , so my potentially best character is on Saturn.
There is something seriously wrong with GRing to CRP , seeing a runner in allied faction , saying hi , and then being killed. I DM the guy ... asking why ... his reponse ?
"because you might have had an alt that was an enemy"
how fucking pathetic.
This is absolutely no reason to kill runners who are in the same faction as you , completely ignore even the most MINOR and SIMPLISTIC role play aspects to the game , infact , i wont even go so far to call it fucking role play , it's a simple basic premise upon which many aspects of the game operate. This sort of thing has happened to me on many occasions , no prizes for guessing which faction is usually involved ... that's right ... you guessed it ... Black Dragon. I wonder if they'll ever be able to utilise the collective Black Dragon brain cell well enough to come up with the shocking conclusion of :
"look , he's green , i wont kill him"
instead of the usual :
"OMG OMG RUNN0R KOS KOS"
Something simply has to be done about this.
Rant over :mad:
There is something seriously wrong with GRing to CRP , seeing a runner in allied faction , saying hi , and then being killed. I DM the guy ... asking why ... his reponse ?
"because you might have had an alt that was an enemy"
how fucking pathetic.You know what's even better? When you get a response of "because I can" when they have a PPU shoved so far up their ass they burp Holy Heals.
--Stryfe
Dribble Joy
10-06-04, 00:39
Uranus is being infected with this too, I know a particular TG runner that pks at MB reguarly, I see him at the ASG one day, so I run in and empty a clip in his arse.
He stops and starts explaining how he is here to pk the guy who killed his CA n00b char.....
O_o
I think its about the free will, look at it like this, you change faction to do a epic, and then you find this dude which is a enemy of your "real" faction so you pk him even though its possible a allied faction to the one your doing your epic with, so he get pissed and start pk'ing every he see of the faction you are doing the epic, which gives that faction a lot of trouble.
Uranus is being infected with this too, I know a particular TG runner that pks at MB reguarly, I see him at the ASG one day, so I run in and empty a clip in his arse.
He stops and starts explaining how he is here to pk the guy who killed his CA n00b char.....
O_o
we actually had to talk to someone in our clan about that because he got killed by PP as a next and used hi crahn char to kill PP and bring trouble to the whole clan
When it's about revenge, the faction doesn't matter for some ...
The faction system is shit. As BD we tried to kidnap a high level CA official last week and ended up running into mainly PP and BT at the place we wanted to do it at. That pretty much left us with our thumbs in our asses.
There are TONS of places where killing allied factions is inevitable. Don't get bogged down with F6 politics for allied runners, and I'll try not to get bogged down with F6 politics for enemy runners. :p
Doc Holliday
10-06-04, 01:26
There are TONS of places where killing allied factions is inevitable. Don't get bogged down with F6 politics for allied runners, and I'll try not to get bogged down with F6 politics for enemy runners. :p
thank god someone thinks a little clearer. its NOT all about F6 thats the biggest load of bullshit in this game as it stands. faction alliances dont mean alot other than a guide. people dissagree fall out argue and make war on each other for lots of reasons. please do not simplify it so idiotically as to say green means he wont kill me or red = dead. thats the most pathetic thing that people do. treat everyone as a threat until they can prove u wrong. simple. u cannot be one particular faction in this entire game and not be forced in to a situation where u could end up killing a "green" player. Look at the dark/ff war on pluto.......
i rest my case.
edited for spelling.
Mumblyfish
10-06-04, 01:28
The current system rocks. At Military Base today I saw two of my staunchest allies fighting it out, a few CityMercs on one Black Dragon runner. At first I decided to leave them be, but when the Black Dragon quickly DM'd me for help, I actually had to make an important decision. Do I leave him to die and lose face with the Black Dragon, or do I join in, lose SoulLight, and the respect of the CityMercs.
-15 SoulLight later, I was sure I'd made the right choice.
This is exactly why DoY vs NC, red vs blue is a good change. For a mature community, the current system is great. But the majority of the community can't grasp it unfortunately.
lmao, you wouldnt of happened to be on what is BD territory would you now?
i got killed on one of my crahn alts by my own clan other day(thanks nish :p )
if you got killed a somewhere like cycrow then nothing should happen its a warzone.
are you clanned, if so then maybe the BD clan is at war with the allied faction.
there is no fasination with killing allied, its simply a fasination with killing endoff.
-15 SoulLight later, I was sure I'd made the right choice.
whenever you chose the side of BD you make the right choice
when i was crahn i made a choice to back a BD clan against the popular opinion of the faction, and i stand by that as the right choice
Maloch Octavia
10-06-04, 01:36
Some of the defendants of the system have missed its purpose entirely.
You SHOULD NOT be able to kill Allied Faction Runners without serious reprecussions.
Would a Faction tolerate such infighting? Would the Alliance remain? Would you even be allowed to remain within the Faction?
Certainly not.
Like A Conservative Politician voting Labour, he'd soon get the boot.
Ezza, no, nothing has been justified, they simply did it 'because', which is wrong, in so many different ways.
If you want to be hostile to me, and are Allied, state as such, don't just kill Allied because. Create a Clan War, let it be known at least, and then I'll sacrifice the SL loss for suffering.
*Sighs*
It's bad enough having to watch your back for enemies, without having to watch your back for everyone.
Getting to the stage you can't go anywhere outside these days.
Like A Conservative Politician voting Labour, he'd soon get the boot.
thats fair point, but you have nowhere to go after that, say you do get kicked out, then you lose SL for killing everyone anyway but you are no longer in a clan, which is what its about, the factions are just somewhere we have to gather within, its the clans(to me) that are more important
if there gonna kick people out for killing then there needs to be somewhere for these people to call home imo
hmm not sure im really making the point i want to :(
tomparadox
10-06-04, 02:00
i agree, this pisses me off too, your FA siting there minding your own busness then all of a suden some damn TG clan comes and raids FA O_o
trigger hurt
10-06-04, 03:15
i totally agree, a coupla days ago i GRed to the Battle Dome, and there was a Tank with a Dev sitting behind the GR, 2 either side with CS's and one outside with a Rav, plus a PPU to hack and Buff, ALL PP, killing ALL, and i was CA...didnt stand chance true, but if i had i woulda had -50 summink SL
BTW: this was saturn, i dont play saturn no more, i wonder why :p
1- If they are killing allied/neutral factions in an anarchy zone and have already killed a few...you will not lose SL because there's will already be negative...you might lose it for the PPU, but the other 3...well..they're fair game.
2- As a freelancer on saturn, my main has pretty much become KoS to everyone except one clan. Odd thing is, these clans that KoS me still ask for me to hack a layer at an op or two for them occasionally and I charge em 25k per op. Easy money but it makes people hate me. Some of these people are in allied factions and they kill me every chance they get. (they get alot of chances and I die quite quickly). Would I want them to get a penalty for killing me? Nope...that char has made his choice to be the real asshole of saturn. I don't want anyone to like him, save a few people, so the "punishment" I receive is one he has earned. Someone shouldn't have to pay a huge SL/FS penalty to kill me.
Reading that, it may seem kind of weird how it's worded...if you actually knew me on saturn...you would understand what I mean. Basically, i think the losses of SL/FS are fine. If you kill enough of one faction, their gaurds will aggro on you. (I'm biotech, i've killed alot of FA and the security turrets in TH don't let me through the front door much)
Remember cm's logging their fa alts to pk tangents at mb. That was fascinating even though they had "no-pk" rules at that time. Every second 41 lamers are born.
trigger hurt
10-06-04, 03:30
Some of the defendants of the system have missed its purpose entirely.
You SHOULD NOT be able to kill Allied Faction Runners without serious reprecussions.
Would a Faction tolerate such infighting? Would the Alliance remain? Would you even be allowed to remain within the Faction?
Certainly not.
Like A Conservative Politician voting Labour, he'd soon get the boot.
Ezza, no, nothing has been justified, they simply did it 'because', which is wrong, in so many different ways.
If you want to be hostile to me, and are Allied, state as such, don't just kill Allied because. Create a Clan War, let it be known at least, and then I'll sacrifice the SL loss for suffering.
*Sighs*
It's bad enough having to watch your back for enemies, without having to watch your back for everyone.
Getting to the stage you can't go anywhere outside these days.
Because you are new to Saturn...I'll fill you in on a little info that some of the other people here seem to be forgetting...quite easily I might add.
1- Said black dragon clan (yes, I can probably guess which one) has held some bad feelings to their so-called faction allies since it's inception. Reason? Because when we were fighting the entire server (read that as: our allies, our neutrals and our enemies were allied in one big NAP althought most of them were hostile to each other) to bring us down. That was their whole reason for being. Not to fight the good fight and split up the territory among all that assisted...no, they wanted all of the power to themselves. I still have screen shots of the stronger factions in this alliance dividing up the ops after their first assault...comical.
2- Those same "allies" that were helping our enemies before came running and crying back to us when we showed we had 'true grit' and that their huge alliance wouldn't topple us. Cowards...now you want us to stop killing you because you want to be on our side again? Fuck that.
Just remember...there are people on both sides of this equation. None of us forget what you have done...we don't expect you to forget what we have done. Fact is, PP, Crahn, BT etc were all allying with TG/TS/CA/CM to bring down one clan...and we haven't forgotten.
You are getting yours. Don't like it...sorry...but that's the way it is. People call Pluto the hardcore server cause you got "skilled pvp'rs". I call Saturn the hardcore server because you don't know who's going to shoot you next.
Id love to comment on this subject......
as a clanmate told me once before on uranus when I asked this same question his answer was all i needed to hear to answer that question
THERE IS SIMPLY NOT BIG ENOUGH OF A PLAYER BASE IN THIS GAME TO HAVE ALLIANCES/NAPS ETC ETC
for instance, the clan im in on uranus is Tg, yet we are at war with FA and all crahn cept one clan.....even TG we only dont KOS one clan.....
if we were to follow ALL faction guidlines there would be noone left to kill
I logged on saturn last night, everywhere i looked there were LEs so when i finally did find a non LE he was my faction, but to save myself from boredom i killed him anyways.....
I personally shoot only red factions, AND bad soulight people, if your in my factions and your yellow soulight, im goin after your belt.....simple....
naps are for pussies
especially NAPs will HOSTILE fucking factions......wtf are you thinking, no wonder you got jacked
its just a fucking game, some people take this shit way too seriously
XP loss and Loss of money for Ally killers.
Want to do it . fine. Suffer the penalty though.
You should be able to still kill an ally but it should be something you really don't WANT to do cause of a penalty that makes it unattractive but if you feel you hate this person in your own alliance/faction enough to warrent a death then you make that choice and it means that it was worth it.
quit crying carbears... there should be no penaty for killing anyone anywhere. If I want to kill you, I'll kill you, end of story.
quit crying carbears... there should be no penaty for killing anyone anywhere. If I want to kill you, I'll kill you, end of story.And here we have another fine example of why it's good to use a LE. Just to piss him off because he can't kill you.
You should be held accountable for your actions. You want to kill members of your own or allied factions? Fine. Make the penalties for doing so rather harsh so someone might *gasp* think before shooting someone.
Bottom line is that this game isn't made JUST for you, to cater to your every whim, so deal with it. KK aren't going to alienate a good chunk of their playerbase by taking the servers back to a state that essentially resembles early retail.
--Stryfe
Jake Cutter
10-06-04, 05:52
quit crying carbears... there should be no penaty for killing anyone anywhere. If I want to kill you, I'll kill you, end of story.
What's a carbear?
Freaky Fryd
10-06-04, 06:02
Yeah, there's a few BD clans on Pluto that fight allied factions, one that's really bad for it...and it's really stupid. They're hacked our OPs and demanded we fight them, they've even killed people (multiple times) that stated flat out that they were a tradeskiller, overweight and had no weapon them. They considered it for a minute, then open fired anyway...
I was out hunting the other day and complaints were being made on trade about them griefing allied faction LE'd runners...
buncha idiots indeed.
Richard Blade
10-06-04, 06:17
What's a carbear?
As to the nature of this thread, I'd say a carebear is someone who wants to play Neocron as it was meant to be played.
Not some griefing jerk who should be playing other games where their actions would be considered normal. Of course, not even TFC allows team killing much anymore. So, maybe they should try Unreal Tournament.
ResurgencE
10-06-04, 06:28
(I'm biotech, i've killed alot of FA and the security turrets in TH don't let me through the front door much)
Uncanny. I have -100 fs with nearly every faction, and none of their guards shoot me if im allied/neutral. And faction guards dont respond to negative SL either.
They merely threaten me, and thats it.
As for what you said regarding FA, i have a response to it, but it'll only get the thread locked since the content has to be left in-game. And frankly, i cant be arsed anymore. Its come to the point where i just dont care. If someone attacks me, i just shoot back without looking at name/faction/clan/shoe-size, whatever.
As for the l'il zerg that took place eons ago, i dont really look at it as allies teaming with hostiles anymore, despite the fact that its funny you should say that because BD became a bandwagon with excessive runners anyway. To me, its just people who dont like one another assimilating into either side and attacking one another. Theres no such thing as RP in this game anymore, due to our own actions, and we are both equally to blame. If you want RP, either play something like SwG which has more content in that field, or wait for BDoY (presumably).
Until then, its just going to be you and guys like you VS me and guys like me. As i explained to you in TH, if you 'rp' an assassin and work for money, your victims will obviously pay you back for the favour. You claim you dont have a problem with it now, but you certainly did when we last had a rather unpleasant encounter.
trigger hurt
10-06-04, 07:09
Uncanny. I have -100 fs with nearly every faction, and none of their guards shoot me if im allied/neutral. And faction guards dont respond to negative SL either.
They merely threaten me, and thats it.
As for what you said regarding FA, i have a response to it, but it'll only get the thread locked since the content has to be left in-game. And frankly, i cant be arsed anymore. Its come to the point where i just dont care. If someone attacks me, i just shoot back without looking at name/faction/clan/shoe-size, whatever.
As for the l'il zerg that took place eons ago, i dont really look at it as allies teaming with hostiles anymore, despite the fact that its funny you should say that because BD became a bandwagon with excessive runners anyway. To me, its just people who dont like one another assimilating into either side and attacking one another. Theres no such thing as RP in this game anymore, due to our own actions, and we are both equally to blame. If you want RP, either play something like SwG which has more content in that field, or wait for BDoY (presumably).
Until then, its just going to be you and guys like you VS me and guys like me. As i explained to you in TH, if you 'rp' an assassin and work for money, your victims will obviously pay you back for the favour. You claim you dont have a problem with it now, but you certainly did when we last had a rather unpleasant encounter.
Actually, I didnt have a 'problem' with it. You wanted to kill me..fine...turn about is fair play...however I came there with the intent of making a peace offering. I was giving you back 3 items I hack from you and some other members of your clans belts when we killed you south of el farid.
Make whatever comment you will about "The Carebear Connection"...you can't deny that it was you and the rest of the people involved who fucked up any remaining (very little) rp/politics on saturn. BD became a bandwagon faction long after I joined the ranks. I was one of the first few TG to move over after the run-ins with that other TG clan who will remain nameless. Don't forget that FA became the faction to be in for quite a while too...sadly...FA couldn't hold out like BD could and they lost ground. These were because of FA's actions...we (BD) didnt need to form a huge zerg of people to attack FA...you did it on your own.
Some of you claim that you never wanted to get rid of that certain BD clan completely, you just wanted your fair share of the map...well, FA had it and they pissed it away. This, of course, has nothing to do with being shot by allied factions...just re-itterating that FA have noone to blame but themselves.
As for getting shot by allies...it's been going on since the start of retail...it was going on during beta...it's nothing new. You should have gotten over it by now. There is obviously a lack of RP throughout the community that plays this game, but the RP'rs continuously brow-beat us for playing the way we want to play. If I'm not forced to RP...im not going to RP. I'm here for my enjoyment, not yours...I doubt you care about my fun...why should I care about yours?
You guys really just need to get over yourselves.
ResurgencE
10-06-04, 07:29
Actually, I didnt have a 'problem' with it. You wanted to kill me..fine...turn about is fair play...however I came there with the intent of making a peace offering. I was giving you back 3 items I hack from you and some other members of your clans belts when we killed you south of el farid.
You hacked nothing from me. And if you had, you handed nothing to me. As for the peace offering, what instigated this 'change of heart'? You're supposed to be a hired assassin. Keep the spoils of war for yourself.
Make whatever comment you will about "The Carebear Connection"...you can't deny that it was you and the rest of the people involved who fucked up any remaining (very little) rp/politics on saturn. BD became a bandwagon faction long after I joined the ranks. I was one of the first few TG to move over after the run-ins with that other TG clan who will remain nameless. Don't forget that FA became the faction to be in for quite a while too...sadly...FA couldn't hold out like BD could and they lost ground. These were because of FA's actions...we (BD) didnt need to form a huge zerg of people to attack FA...you did it on your own.
You may call it what you wish. The point is that people were tired of your reckless behaviour, and therefore allied to kill you. Furthermore, i was on good terms with crahn way before your clan even came into existance. And finally, it matters not whether you were in BD at the time. The point is, it grew out of proportions, and everyone wanted a piece of the cake. Today, FA is one of the most difficult factions to play because even some of our allies/neutrals have chosen to fight us. FA sadly had become a faction-hoppers paradise for awhile, but fortunately, most of them moved back to their old factions once our skilled pvp'ers left to join other factions...Including BD. The only reason you didnt need to zerg is prolly due to monopolizing the server's talent. We had fewer quality players at the time, though it grew when some of the people in BD itself were disgusted with it's shallow members.
Some of you claim that you never wanted to get rid of that certain BD clan completely, you just wanted your fair share of the map...well, FA had it and they pissed it away. This, of course, has nothing to do with being shot by allied factions...just re-itterating that FA have noone to blame but themselves.
Didnt quite understand your point. Expatiate further.
As for getting shot by allies...it's been going on since the start of retail...it was going on during beta...it's nothing new. You should have gotten over it by now. There is obviously a lack of RP throughout the community that plays this game, but the RP'rs continuously brow-beat us for playing the way we want to play. If I'm not forced to RP...im not going to RP. I'm here for my enjoyment, not yours...I doubt you care about my fun...why should I care about yours?
I 'got over it' eons ago. Which is why i dont bother with the F6 anymore. I was commenting on your public outcry in TH, and how you seem to be singing a different tune now after i had spelled it out for you that you getting attacked by FA was supposed to be deemed 'normal'.
Initially, i would care about other people's fun, though you assume otherwise. But attitudes like yours made me cynical, and now i dont really care anymore. RP died with folks claiming that they'd kill anyone on sight if they were bored, and there was a prime example of this which i responded to in detail on the getsomeskills forum, but never received a rebuttal.
Regardless, this discussion is bound to get out of hand. You wish to debate this? Fine by me. Either PM me, or start up a new thread in the appropriate forum and provide me with a link.
Do not perpetuate it any further here, or you'll get Vet's thread closed down. Copy and paste what ive said and stick it in your refutation on a different forum, and ill come there.
I need to vent this, it's really pissing me off...
What is this whole fascination with killing Allied Faction Runners?
Why does Reakktor not make the punishment for killing Allied, more severe?
Why can't people get a fucking grip on the politics of the situation, and stop taking things for granted, or doing things just because?
It's really starting to piss me off, that for the tenth time, I'm having to get poked because some jerk in an Allied Faction has decided to act like a dick.
Neutral, fine, Hostile, bring it on, but Allied?? Yet we can't defend ourselves without taking massive SL hits.... What's that all about? Because we actually care about SL and want to respect Reakktors shitty system, we can't defend ourselves when some dick with no respect decides to break the system?
Fucksake
I agree it's quite lame, but the faction system as it is right now (as KK has admitted) is so twisted and messed up that it seems hardly anyone pays attention. :(
ResurgencE
10-06-04, 08:54
I was giving you back 3 items I hack from you and some other members of your clans belts when we killed you south of el farid.
Sorry. I dont mean this in an argumentative way, but i noticed it after the time to edit expired. Leaving aside the fact that ive almost never dropped anything worth knicking in a belt (and the fact that ive only personally fought you twice, once on a ppu who died in sync in a warzone, the other on a tank in TH who didnt die), i also havent been in a clan in over 6 months. If you mean Darla, she's a faction member, not a clan member, and you handed her back her PA. (I say 'her' because NoNo decided to play a chick, for some reason. :D )
Coming back to the topic at hand withOUT flaming or finger-pointing, i believe that the current faction system doesnt really give it's runners an incentive to remain in them. On top of that, some of them just dont sound as classy as others. This is why i believe 6 factions vs the other 6 isnt such a bad idea after all. ill be posting my thoughts on this in a new thread.
All im asking for is a prevention of a repeat of whats been happening on Saturn all this time. A certain faction gets powerful, and people flock to it, leaving the fighting faction as the underdog. The underdog allies with other underdogs (i didnt necessarily agree with it. In fact, when a certain CM clan came to help FA fight BD, i called them fags and left.), and before you know it, several factions comprising of fewer runners, or runners without much skill (but nice folks nevertheless) get together to match the strength of the bandwagon faction. And as soon as the bandwagon faction falls or quits, all the faction-hoppers jump to the faction which showed the most promise as an underdog, and then proceed to weigh it down. Rinse and repeat.
Theres just no faction LOYALTY. Think im going to post a minor idea i have about this portion of the game.
Killing allied faction runners isnt very good idea indeed, but it needs to be viable unfortunately to prevent abuse.
And considering the maturity level of some players it is inevitable sometimes, at least for me as i have a habit of putting certain runners (those who have done something really bad) on permament KOS list and therefore hunting them down regardless of faction/clan issues... Sometimes it's the only way, believe me.
As long as certain people are still playing then there will always be ppl killing allies until something is done. Maybe reducing the damage done to allies by 75% would help.
My suggestion. Killing allied runners will put you on the ncpd list right away, meaning lower than -16 soul light. All safe zones are closed to this low-life criminal, including his appy. This character will for one hour after the kill not be able to log out of the game. He can actually log out, but the in-game character will remain, waiting to get ganked back. And of course. All items will drop. Did I mention the gogos should be closed and the grs as well?
The person who got ganked gets a eye for an eye flag on him or a wanted poster, which means he can kill his killer at will. The victim can either kill the person himself or donate/sell this wanted poster to a merc, city admin, TG, FA clan and now the whole clan can kill this person when they put the wanted poster into the kos list(its not about fair, its about justice). They will ofcourse be payed for their services. The only way out of the kos list is by being ganked by the clan or person who has the wanted poster.
On top of this he will recieve punishment from his faction as they need to smooth things out with their allies. About 500k perhaps?
Lol think I went a little overboard here.
Killing an ally should mean you get kicked from your faction. When you have been kicked from your faction you should become a factionless outlaw who is hostile to everyone (even towards other factionless outlaws).
The only way to get back to a faction should be the Anarchy Breed (maybe after soullight has rissen to a certain point?).
Greetz
Here is my take on the situation, I don't know about Battledome area right now, but after playing for just over 2 weeks on Saturn i must say it does seem to be one or two idiots who do this, I won't mention names but i got some idea on who it is.
I do fully agree that a more stronger penalty be given for killing a allied faction member, not so sure about more SL hit, thats gotta be kept the same as its another life, but something todo with your faction and that or the allied one, but also keep in mind the faction hoppers here, lets not make it easy for them to just go out and kill allied peeps to change to another faction.
So what we got so far, ok SL hit no matter what zone your in, even warzone? no that won't work, ok no SL hit in warzone but also no faction gain for enemy factions in the warzone.
But no matter where you are, you killl a faction member, your own or allied, then you get a massive drop in Faction symp from both yours and all allied factions, and any allied factions the dead runner was with, so making it a real problem, remember these people don't care about SL hits, so once they do go down in SL and goto red, they will NOT be able to do missions coz their FS is screwed over big time?
Thus making them a useless char, either they need to leave it over night online to regain SL, or they hide the char away, they do this for any chars they got and in time they will have nothing to play with being all -SL, and remember now city com shows people at -16 and below, so people can hunt these idiots down with ease.
What are we talking about here, death of a friend, the Factions come before yourself, there is no option other than to go factionless, so you must think about factions, no matter what clan your in, like was said before we don't have a clan war system in place, so its bullshit to say that clan is KOS even though the factions are allied, just resolve the problem.
Maybe killing a allied runner should incure a -20 symp in all allied factions for each death, the faction knows your out there killing people they want to keep peace with, for whatever reason be it business or whatever, and your killing is possible ruining the relations between factions, so you get punished.
Thats a bit of RP above.
What i will say is it don't surprise me to read its BD, they seem atm to be some real cocks in that faction, ive meet some great people in there though so don't think they are all like it, but then again there are cocks in all factions right? sure is.
I think its down to the clan leaders to sort out these idiots, in the end maybe they willl find themselves without a clan and make their own little clan that will get destroyed every turn they make, that would be fun todo lol
One last thing you could do, you can always contact the clan leader of the clanned runners that are killing you, mention names on who it was and see what happens, and the worst case is the leader will tell you something along the lines of the killer, or he can note it and say he will deal with it.
This seems to be working to a smaller degree, but some clans just don't bother dealing with it, mainly coz the leader is also a idiot, in those cases nothing you can do but travel in groups and avoid the well known areas that they prats hang out at.
Or better yet, get a large group, and go find em, give them a taste of their own medicine lol :D
Original monk
10-06-04, 10:22
lmao, you wouldnt of happened to be on what is BD territory would you now?
hehe, i wipe my ass with everything that is "fill in faction"-territory ..
i dont like people that claim parts of a game ... ok, you aint gonna walk around in a hostile HQ or OP (unless youre raiding it ffcourse), but if ya wonna level/hunt somewhere then ya level/hunt where ya want, simple
daamn rats thinking the game is theirs cause they got an OP ...
and allied factions killing allied factions is normal on saturn, everyone has so many alts and 99% of the server doesnt give a daamn about factions and/or roleplay ... ffcourse its a lame server ... and all the daamn kiddies running around in it doesnt make it any better
Dribble Joy
10-06-04, 10:33
Killing an ally should mean you get kicked from your faction. When you have been kicked from your faction you should become a factionless outlaw who is hostile to everyone (even towards other factionless outlaws).
The only way to get back to a faction should be the Anarchy Breed (maybe after soullight has rissen to a certain point?).
Killing an Ally should (and does afaik) loose you symp with your own faction, @ -75 (or somewhere) symp with an allied faction you should get booted from your own faction.
The anarchy breed aren't actually a 'pk' or criminal organisation, they are a group (not a group though... kinda) that simply does not respect authority, and do as they please, which in turn earns them enemies.
Uncanny. I have -100 fs with nearly every faction, and none of their guards shoot me if im allied/neutral. And faction guards dont respond to negative SL either.
No, but they SHOULD.
Actually, they do... if you are unclanned.
It's good to habe more accounts yes, but i try to keep it as simple as possible for people, by keeping my names faction and clan the same for most of my alts.
ResurgencE
10-06-04, 10:49
No, but they SHOULD.
Of course they should. But they dont. I was merely correcting Trigger when he claimed that he killed so many FA that his low faction symp caused the TH turrets to shoot at him, which is frankly...Untrue. The only possible explanation is that when he entered TH, the turrets began to stir and, thinking that he was about to get shot, he fled. (I did the same ages ago when i first had negative symp with TG and thought the guards would do more than just threaten me.)
Actually, they do... if you are unclanned.
Not unclanned. All my chars are unclanned, yet they dont get shot. It is only if you have low faction symp with a particular faction and you are faction-less that you get shot.
maggotcorpse
10-06-04, 11:04
This Green=Dead Crap is a normal thing on Saturn. You can test it very easy. Kill one Hostile Runner and wait next to the Corpse. A few Minutes later there comes an Allied/Neutral Runner and attacks you. I have tested it very often and nearly everytime an Allied/Neutral Runner tried to kill me then with the Reason
"You killed my Alt now you are KOS on several Clans!!!!111oneoneone" ... damn im sick of it when people cant divide their Alternate Characters. It isnt so hard as it seems :D
This Green=Dead Crap is a normal thing on Saturn. You can test it very easy. Kill one Hostile Runner and wait next to the Corpse. A few Minutes later there comes an Allied/Neutral Runner and attacks you. I have tested it very often and nearly everytime an Allied/Neutral Runner tried to kill me then with the Reason
"You killed my Alt now you are KOS on several Clans!!!!111oneoneone" ... damn im sick of it when people cant divide their Alternate Characters. It isnt so hard as it seems :D
Yep. Each alternate character should have its own enemies. If you decide to play a char as CA and another as TG, accept the consequences of that.
I get too confused for that, hence the same faction for my chars. (i'm blonde)
I do have some other chars in other factions, but they are more for roleplaying then hardcore gaming (read killing-dying).
Maester Seymour
10-06-04, 11:29
Allies vs Allies is fuckin ludicrous imo.
Nearly every single day on Uranus TG comes to TH to attack FA. I won't name people or clans but its always the same people over and over again that come and kill their bloody faction allies....
I think its appalling tbh, and we get bad SL for protecting our bloody home against em... :mad:
Liebestoter
10-06-04, 11:32
Make clan wars work and temporarily turn clans yer at war with red.
Limit the number of similtanious wars to 3 or 4.
Problem solved.
Quote Extract:
for instance, the clan im in on uranus is Tg, yet we are at war with FA and all crahn cept one clan.....even TG we only dont KOS one clan.....
:rolleyes:
You boys must be bored..... :lol:
<- Is FA btw (and very tired of your clans crap)
Anyway....
I do agree there should be a certain penalty to killing a faction ally, and some ideas have been posted already.
My idea is that the Turrets can be controlled by the FA council (Faction Representative), with overview by the FC to prevent abuse of the system. They should be able to
1: Set a Faction to KoS
2: Set a Certain Runner to KoS
3: Set a Clan to KoS
Another idea would be that the Guards/Turrets attack the Factions Clans War lists.
So if say a allied clan (who you are at war with) enters TH to pk your clan, and you have that clan on your ClanWar list, that clan gets shot by the Guards/Turrets.
This idea is only applicable to Factions who have Bases (CM/FA/TG), and possibly only until DoY comes out. So the chances something likes this gets implemented is lower than zilch :(
Bah
i iz finished
hehe, i wipe my ass with everything that is "fill in faction"-territory ..
i dont like people that claim parts of a game ... ok, you aint gonna walk around in a hostile HQ or OP (unless youre raiding it ffcourse), but if ya wonna level/hunt somewhere then ya level/hunt where ya want, simple
daamn rats thinking the game is theirs cause they got an OP ...
and allied factions killing allied factions is normal on saturn, everyone has so many alts and 99% of the server doesnt give a daamn about factions and/or roleplay ... ffcourse its a lame server ... and all the daamn kiddies running around in it doesnt make it any better
well to me if i look and see a big blob of black on the map to me thatis BD territory.
sure you can come to umm say cycrow, but dont expect to live, you view it as one thing we view it as another.
plus we all know you do pretty much your own thing anyway ;)
Maloch Octavia
10-06-04, 12:49
especially NAPs will HOSTILE fucking factions......wtf are you thinking, no wonder you got jacked
Oh, someone has missed the whole purpose of Roleplay...
Just because someone is Hostile to you, doesn't mean you automatically kill them. Again, a lot of us play on the higher sphere that Red does not automatically equal Dead. I like to assess each situation, and frankly, some Clans that are Red, I have no issues with, and have no desire to start a War with. That's how politics become so fucked up, by people running around and killing everything, just because.
As it goes, we have one N.a.P operating with a Hostile Faction clan, and that's because the N.a.P terms work quite well for us, and give us plenty of leverage and leeway. We don't have N.a.P's with Allied Factions, why do we need that (Although that view is obviously changing) and we don't have any with any Neutral Faction clans, as we're not really that bothered yet about Neutrals.
quit crying carbears... there should be no penaty for killing anyone anywhere. If I want to kill you, I'll kill you, end of story.
Yet another good example as to why the Internet is a bad place, you can't reach out and smack the tards.
So to summarise on my views:
Green = Dead unprovoked = Stupid, wrong in so many ways, not punished enough, and a quick way to destroy the gaming experience for everyone.
Oh, and if a certain Faction or Clan has gripes, they should contact the people they have gripes with, or realise that people change. We've no interest in BD, frankly, we couldn't give a fuck what the monkeys do, but if they're going to go on like this, something will need to be done about it.
landofcake
10-06-04, 13:53
The whole thing is ridiculous ... and some of the replies in this thread have simply acted to prove why the problem exists.
I agree it is stupid.
@ Ezza, stop jumping factions, you was crahn i think a few weeks ago, so that BD black blob wasn't yours then, so how you claim it now?
Truth be told the world map shows a colour to highlight the outpost in that sector, showing who owns it to everyone, instead of checking city com like the old days.
Now in the old days, when you checked to see who owned, lets say cycrow, did you then assume it was all owned in that area by one faction? in those days it was TG, but it wasnt TG owned land, just the outpost.
Plus may i point out that just coz one clan at the time holds the security on a outpost, it is by no means owning that outpost, within 3 mins it can be taken away by any clan no matter what faction "even your own faction just a different clan"
So no one owns anything in the game, your clan can try and claim territory by patrolling a place, but you dont own it.
For anyone who says "yeah we own it, you dont go there, we own it and you do as your told" i say fuck em, plain and simple, people that claim things in a game are just showing a maturity lvl that matches what most of us already think about said person.
There are a couple of things i wanna add here, when DOY does come, and its us vs them so to say, what is gonna happen with all the cocks from certain factions then? gonna still kill your own side?
Also with Saturn and BD, its funny to see as those same BD was in TG so long ago, but coz a certain clan came to TG and started to PK and create trouble in TG, most left TG to make what was Cartel, so they left coz they was getting pk'ed by their own faction? :lol:
Now its turned around and they doing the same stuff?
Ah well like i said not all of em are, just a select few cocks, you know who you are.
I agree that Allied killing Allied is not really acceptable without good RP reason IMO.
This sort of thing fortunatley does not happen on Pluto, apart from maybe TG Crahn but thats with good reason, its DARK, i'd kill them :)
But yeah, just come over to Pluto and enjoy RP'ing :)
I agree that Allied killing Allied is not really acceptable without good RP reason IMO.
This sort of thing fortunatley does not happen on Pluto, apart from maybe TG Crahn but thats with good reason, its DARK, i'd kill them :)
But yeah, just come over to Pluto and enjoy RP'ing :)
who were the 2 biggest clans on pluto for long time :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=YoDa-UK]I agree it is stupid.
@ Ezza, stop jumping factions, you was crahn i think a few weeks ago, so that BD black blob wasn't yours then, so how you claim it now?
[QUOTE]i was crahn in old days, i then joined BD about 9 months ago, before Cartel came about, cartel moved BD i joined cartel, so those blobs were mine, i then moved to crahn again for a while cartel broke up
cartel refored as ShadoW i rejoined BD and re joined my old clan mates in ShadoW, so the black blobs are as much mine as anyones.
and i dont think 2 changes of faction in 18 months is faction jumping
who were the 2 biggest clans on pluto for long time :rolleyes:
SS and FF, why ;)
SS and FF, why ;)
i didnt mean it as in who were? i ment it as they were, and you know that :mad:
and yoda, just reread you post.
the people who made up cartel didnt leave TG cos they were getting pk'd they left so they could kill the TG clan all day with out SL lose, why not stick to pluto politics which you proberbly know more about
Man some of the posts in this thread are absurd. Massive faction symp loss for killing an allied runner? Sure why not, but then give me massive faction symp gain for killing enemy runners.
Let me just go ahead and repeat this for any one to hear. Ill even go into super duper all caps mode of doom! THERE ARE PLENTY OF VALID REASONS FOR ATTACKING ALLIED FACTIONS!!! Ffs stop being a slave to the F6 key.
Maloch Octavia
10-06-04, 17:09
I walk by an Allied Faction Runner, whom I have never seen before, in my life, I get gunned down.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF VALID REASONS FOR ATTACKING ALLIED FACTIONS!!!
Give me a valid reason for that.
slaughteruall
10-06-04, 17:19
I walk by an Allied Faction Runner, whom I have never seen before, in my life, I get gunned down.
Give me a valid reason for that.
You want a quick example. I'm TT we had a NAP with a certain BD clan. CM are hostile to BD. TT never helped BD fight against a non mutual enemy. CM asked us to join the zerg to wipe out this BD clan (witch was CM/FA/TG/CS/PP everyone). We said no we wont fight along side of a hostile faction (FA and TG). CM KOS everyone in my clan. Does that seem right? Should i be punished for defending myself against a allied person? CM thought it was valid. Everyone has different views on it man. You will have to learn to cope with it.
Slaughter
Give me a valid reason for that.
As FA we attacked a TG clan for a period of time. Reason being that it was an ingame thing. Not decided upon what our Factions think, it was between our two clans and that was valid reason enough
I think here the topic is being pushed aside for clan reasons, people are saying this clan went to war with that clan for valid reasons, and they happen to be allied factions.
What i think the topic is about is why do we see daily even unclanned runners who are allied to people gun them down? where is the penalty for that? @ Jest, its simple, you kill someone you will become a criminal "lose SL", thats the same punishment for all runners, regardless of factions, yet I do agree with some and do think that you kill a ally, there should be more punishment from your own faction and that of the faction you killed, the law is the law in Neocron, so you face that whatever, but surely a faction takes their own view on things and as you work for a faction, they are your boss, without them you are nothing, its that simple, I just think that if i killed a ally runner, then i am going against not only that faction, but my own for the efforts they take in keeping good relations, so i must be punished for it accordingly, hence why i think a hit to faction symp is needed and bigger than what we got now.
I reckon killing a ally is like this
-20 points from allied faction
-10 points from own faction
So while it doesn't completely stop this kind of killing, it will in time limit it, as you go below a certain point and not only will your own faction guards shoot you "as they should" but also the faction guards of the ally, so in the end your a wanted man and become factionless should you leave a clan your in.
IF you don't leave that clan and still have the faction tag above your head, then its obvious to everyone that your clan is to be questioned and should be KOS to most people.
I'm not sure how they could make this work with regards to killing a faction killer, maybe if you got more FS then the killer, you don't lose symp, kinda like the SL system?
Anyway punishment is needed regardless, you don't care about a faction? then get out and go factionless, just means no more outposts or being in a clan for you, and maybe being gunned down by the entire factioned server :D
the people who made up cartel didnt leave TG cos they were getting pk'd they left so they could kill the TG clan all day with out SL lose, why not stick to pluto politics which you proberbly know more about
Yeah your right, I was in ND for a while when that certain clan came and created all them problems, problems that was they was pking other TG and messing it up, so most of you guys left TG so you could kill em without taking SL hits.
So tell me this, why does some BD now go around pking allied faction members now and taking SL hits this time? It makes no sense to me at all tbh, people leave one faction so they can kill their forma faction without problems, then they turn on allied factions :wtf:
Also Pluto was my home, but ive been playing Saturn now for a long time, I've not touched pluto since i was in FF ages ago, and im pretty damn up to date on saturn atm as im in one of the larger clans and i see what goes on daily there while im busy with my chars and clan.
Quick question to you Ezza, why did you leave black rose in Crahn to goto BD? was it just your m8's in there or did you want a easy life :) j/k ;)
Prodigious
10-06-04, 20:23
OK ... i've really wanted to vent my feelings on this subject for quite a while. MkVenner will know how i feel about this since i've mentioned it on IRC.
IT RUINS THE GAME
"because you might have had an alt that was an enemy"
how fucking pathetic.
this is why i was a fan of pluto, because of the idea of one char, but that was soon shattered when i found people were paying for multiple accounts, so i went to uranus after only a few months as i didnt want to pay extra for alts........
and personally i think, people should have something enforced to make all characters on one server made to be the same faction, so to people who actually keep alts seperate and RP there alts and treat them as DIFFERENT CHARS it will piss them off, but how often have you killed someone for them to log their capped alt and whip yo ass... this was especially bad when i killed at mid-level status, as pvp is seen as an end-game thing in neocron. you dont pvp as mid level i guess :o :o
Freaky Fryd
10-06-04, 22:15
But no matter where you are, you killl a faction member, your own or allied, then you get a massive drop in Faction symp from both yours and all allied factions, and any allied factions the dead runner was with, so making it a real problem, remember these people don't care about SL hits, so once they do go down in SL and goto red, they will NOT be able to do missions coz their FS is screwed over big time?
Amen, Yoda!
That's much more how it should be...
No more Protopharma runners attacking me for no apparent reason (allied - Biotech) other than the usual story of them being an alt of a enemy...
Even better...a big solution towards BD jerks attacking us too.
If someone attacks you ,you should be able to kill them with out losing soullight its as simple as that too many times have I been fighting TG's and crahn or proto have attacked me. I'm BD btw allied to proto and crahn I also think clan wars should be allowed but others will disagree saying it would lead to people declaring war just to pk
Quick question to you Ezza, why did you leave black rose in Crahn to goto BD? was it just your m8's in there or did you want a easy life :) j/k ;)it wasnt black rose i was , it was followers of crahn.
hmm easy life, let me see i joined BD when the only about 5 people were in BD and ND were still big clan, i joined BD cos i love the faction, i didnt go BD to rejoin Cartel(shadow) i went back cos the faction is the one i concider home.
it was that nice guy called Eled who invited me so of course i re joined them
if i wanted easy time i would remained as crahn as they have little opposition, but BD have the numerous enemies
and as crahn i was fighting mercs, going red SL quite a lot, but it dawned on me that i was still playing as if in BD, so i returned.
my home, my faction and im happy, i will still be in BD when shadow leave game.
only 2 factions have occipied my time for long periods crahn and BD, hope that clears this up
Doc Holliday
11-06-04, 00:09
All im asking for is a prevention of a repeat of whats been happening on Saturn all this time. A certain faction gets powerful, and people flock to it, leaving the fighting faction as the underdog. The underdog allies with other underdogs (i didnt necessarily agree with it. In fact, when a certain CM clan came to help FA fight BD, i called them fags and left.), and before you know it, several factions comprising of fewer runners, or runners without much skill (but nice folks nevertheless) get together to match the strength of the bandwagon faction. And as soon as the bandwagon faction falls or quits, all the faction-hoppers jump to the faction which showed the most promise as an underdog, and then proceed to weigh it down. Rinse and repeat.
this has happened does happen and will happen again. Survival of the lamest i call it. like lemmings. or sheep. baaaaaaaaaaaaah baaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. besides res. look at bd. 2 common enemies. they band to take the threat out. the mercs could have have been paid to do it..... that ladies and gents is roleplay. :cool:
and even unreal tournament doesnt allow team killing or at least it can be disabled.
Clans < factions, ergo
I would be entirely satisfied if they removed friendly fire completely, e.g. green factions are untargetable like with an LE.
There is no basis in the storyline for green factions to attack each other. Because clans are members of factions, they are bound by the storyline to respect their allies.
Under those rules, if you want to take ops, you move to either a neutral or hostile faction from those that have them, or wait for your allies to lose their ops and then take them for yourself.
Problem solved, that'll be $500 please.
/ducks the backlash
trigger hurt
11-06-04, 05:47
I agree it is stupid.
@ Ezza, stop jumping factions, you was crahn i think a few weeks ago, so that BD black blob wasn't yours then, so how you claim it now?
Truth be told the world map shows a colour to highlight the outpost in that sector, showing who owns it to everyone, instead of checking city com like the old days.
Now in the old days, when you checked to see who owned, lets say cycrow, did you then assume it was all owned in that area by one faction? in those days it was TG, but it wasnt TG owned land, just the outpost.
Plus may i point out that just coz one clan at the time holds the security on a outpost, it is by no means owning that outpost, within 3 mins it can be taken away by any clan no matter what faction "even your own faction just a different clan"
So no one owns anything in the game, your clan can try and claim territory by patrolling a place, but you dont own it.
For anyone who says "yeah we own it, you dont go there, we own it and you do as your told" i say fuck em, plain and simple, people that claim things in a game are just showing a maturity lvl that matches what most of us already think about said person.
There are a couple of things i wanna add here, when DOY does come, and its us vs them so to say, what is gonna happen with all the cocks from certain factions then? gonna still kill your own side?
Also with Saturn and BD, its funny to see as those same BD was in TG so long ago, but coz a certain clan came to TG and started to PK and create trouble in TG, most left TG to make what was Cartel, so they left coz they was getting pk'ed by their own faction? :lol:
Now its turned around and they doing the same stuff?
Ah well like i said not all of em are, just a select few cocks, you know who you are.
I consider the fact that we hold a specific area of the map, pretty much unopposed for so long..we own it. Yeah, you can attempt to take it away, but we'll just come out fighting and take it back. We've fought over the same ops for so long, we have strategies for each one. That makes it ours. Until someone can shut us out and keep us out for more than a few hours...I say that makes our claim on the land pretty fuckin valid.
I was one of the 5 people who left New Dawn to join Cartel. I didn't leave because I was being pk'd. I left because I was tired of going to -20 soul light in one night because the fucks couldn't pick a fight with a real enemy...I died alot...but the reward was pretty great. 5 different runners dropped 5 different rares in two nights.
The insults and name-calling do nothing to help your stance on this subject. All of the complaining, bitching and moaning is coming from people who claim to play on a higher sphere than us "cocks", meanwhile, your only means of trying to find a solution to this is to insult us. With that, you are on our level. What you people don't realize is that we find it fucking hilarious. I hack someones belt, take the loot and sell it for dirt cheap to anyone else but them...they could get it back just by asking for it, but instead, they hurl insults. This is the same thing. Your insults only make us want to kill you more and it infuriates you.
trigger hurt
11-06-04, 05:57
Of course they should. But they dont. I was merely correcting Trigger when he claimed that he killed so many FA that his low faction symp caused the TH turrets to shoot at him, which is frankly...Untrue. The only possible explanation is that when he entered TH, the turrets began to stir and, thinking that he was about to get shot, he fled. (I did the same ages ago when i first had negative symp with TG and thought the guards would do more than just threaten me.)
Not unclanned. All my chars are unclanned, yet they dont get shot. It is only if you have low faction symp with a particular faction and you are faction-less that you get shot.
Beleive what you want. I go to red rock mine occasionally, on my way through the area or to hack a layer...if I get close to the turrets, they open up on me. And I am clanned...course there's only one member in my clan.
Some of the defendants of the system have missed its purpose entirely.
You SHOULD NOT be able to kill Allied Faction Runners without serious reprecussions.
Would a Faction tolerate such infighting? Would the Alliance remain? Would you even be allowed to remain within the Faction?
Certainly not.
Like A Conservative Politician voting Labour, he'd soon get the boot.
Ezza, no, nothing has been justified, they simply did it 'because', which is wrong, in so many different ways.
If you want to be hostile to me, and are Allied, state as such, don't just kill Allied because. Create a Clan War, let it be known at least, and then I'll sacrifice the SL loss for suffering.
*Sighs*
It's bad enough having to watch your back for enemies, without having to watch your back for everyone.
Getting to the stage you can't go anywhere outside these days.
That last part is exactly the reason why 5 of my 7 characters on Saturn have an LE. Those two without the LE being a constructor that never leaves the city and the other being a capped (except for INT) PPU.
I remember the old days on Saturn where I could go anywhere and when I saw an allied or neutral person, I could rest easy and even go AFK if I needed to.
But it's not like that anymore. Stopped being like that a LONG time ago. You can't even trust your allies anymore. It's gotten to the point where I trust absolutely NO ONE. I've become extremely anti-social (the non-people-person type, not the emotionless remorseless killer type) and don't even talk to anyone unless I'm tradeskilling.
Wonder what will happen when this whole side A against side B comes into play with DoY.
Well, i'm looking forward to pro-city vs anti-city raids.
Makes it a lot easier at fights, because now you can have two groups fighting each other with mixed factions, and you have to look at your soullight as much as your healthbar :-)
allied factions
bah
goto saturn so fa is in war with mercs, because most of the mercs are bd. so they need to get answer.
some single clan from ca, pp,ts and bio are kos too.
everyone attack fa or there friends need to get answer
welcome to total war
Original monk
11-06-04, 09:00
welcome to total war
the apocalypse is allready over anyways, post-apocalyptic right :P
If you want to "Kill what I want, when I want", go play CS or Quake.
The argument seems to be that the amount of players doesn't justify a proper intra-faction RP context. Then why does this work on Pluto? I mean generally. Of course we have our quarrels, but not to the same extent as Saturn and we are fewer even.
However... This allied vs allied would be acceptable to a certain extent if it was possible to defend yourself without loosing SL and symps. The current system is really borked. You have to be able to defend yourself if attacked first. It's basic and common sense.
I would really like to see this in place.
Original monk
11-06-04, 10:26
The argument seems to be that the amount of players doesn't justify a proper intra-faction RP context.
roleplay in general doesnt exist on saturn ... not the same as on pluto or uranus ..
when i said this before i get reactions like: there is roleplay but you gotta know where and ya gotta look hard etc ... says enough ... there is no roleplay indeed, maybe in closed groups but in general everyone plays this game as any other fps game ... on saturn
last thing i noticed about roleplay was naimex, mkvenner and napalm with there red sl nibchars @ the village ... and i was stunned cause they started roleplaying and i didnt even know how to react cause this was a higly unusual situation for saturn :) but very fun tough :)
then factionroleplay ... practically nonexistant ... but this is understandable ... when ya have a guy called mister X and he's of a hostile faction and youre fighting with em for about 3 hours ... he kills you a few times ... you kill him a few times and the day after you see that same mister X walking by but on he's (to you allied) altchar called mister Y then ffcourse you attack em ... thats the same guy as yesterday yust on another char :)
and affter a while ya know most peoples alt and when ya see someone ya yust attack the person in question ... like: hey there goes mister Z (a neutral to me) but he killed me about 30 times in the past or when i was a nib or whatever ... so i gonna get that guy back, nomather what :) tough thats the attitude with most people :)
some guys especially log there alts to attack ya cause they know youre for example on low sl (-10 orso) and they know that if ya kill em then YOU get in trouble cause of the even lower SL ya get ...
i am guilthy myself of this actually cause i have non-faction chars to PK with ... allied with everyone ... ok they loose SL and symphaty when they kill you ... but so do you when ya kill others ... not particulary nice, but a good way to show the others that youre being serieus ... and when i get bugged and loose my factionsymphaty i aint gonna do about a 100 missions and pay 300k etc etc ... ffcourse then ya can ask for a ingame fix by a GM but whats the use ? if they dont like you they attack ya anyway .. nomather if youre yellow, green, blue, purple, red or i dunno ...
think some things gotta change here but hey, im thinking that for 2 years now and probably dOy gonna fix that anyways :D
I consider the fact that we hold a specific area of the map, pretty much unopposed for so long..we own it. Yeah, you can attempt to take it away, but we'll just come out fighting and take it back. We've fought over the same ops for so long, we have strategies for each one. That makes it ours. Until someone can shut us out and keep us out for more than a few hours...I say that makes our claim on the land pretty fuckin valid.
Sorry to burst your bubble here, but no one single player or clan or faction owns anything in this game on a perma basis, if you beleive that you do then your world will come crashing down one day when the place you claim is yours is taken away, and although at this time BD is strong, or is it that no one has turned around against BD in strenght to take it all back? when that days comes it will be interesting to see how BD feels about who "owns" it.
I was one of the 5 people who left New Dawn to join Cartel. I didn't leave because I was being pk'd. I left because I was tired of going to -20 soul light in one night because the fucks couldn't pick a fight with a real enemy...I died alot...but the reward was pretty great. 5 different runners dropped 5 different rares in two nights.
Yes absolutely, the people in that old TG clan was being pricks, they was creating all sorts of problems in TG and what could we do? sod all except die to them or lose massive SL, of which i did both, and yeah i got rares from that clan to when i killed and hacked Red SL people, was this right? maybe not in your own faction but we all know what that clan was like, your answer was togo to BD and kill them, fair enough, mine was togo to crahn, both of us still remained anti city. But its the same problem, that was inner faction killing, this is allied faction killing, its the same thing, everyone is green to eachother, does it make it right? green is green, same as Red is dead theory, works both ways.
The insults and name-calling do nothing to help your stance on this subject. All of the complaining, bitching and moaning is coming from people who claim to play on a higher sphere than us "cocks", meanwhile, your only means of trying to find a solution to this is to insult us. With that, you are on our level. What you people don't realize is that we find it fucking hilarious. I hack someones belt, take the loot and sell it for dirt cheap to anyone else but them...they could get it back just by asking for it, but instead, they hurl insults. This is the same thing. Your insults only make us want to kill you more and it infuriates you.
Name calling? what name have I mentioned here, did i name one single runner who i know does this sort of thing on saturn? i think i said something like "you know who you are" <-
You say its all coming from people who play on a higher sphere than you - your own words- "cocks", but doesn't claiming a territory as yours and putting others down put yourself on a higher sphere? doesn't that say something about you? But then you say about when someone complains they are on the same "level" as you, and that you "lot" find it hilarious, doesn't that show to people the level of maturity you show yourself to have here, meaning that you will kill anyone on YOUR territory, allied or not and that you laugh at them afterwards, so in conclusion you enjoy pissing people off and ruining their game time fun? its your account, you do with it what you want, but im sure if people went out of their way to ruin your fun, it might not seem such a laugh anymore.
I agree that you get someones items from a belt and they insult you over it, hell yes give it away or sell to someone other than that person, maybe it will teach them a lesson not to be such a idiot about dying, but of course im talking about a runner you killed who was obviously your enemy, NOT your ally.
One thing i love about this game is the ability to openly PvP with other people, of course there is safezones, but i mean out in the wastelands and such, someone pisses you off, pull a gun or weapon and blast em, thats something i truely love, but there is a live to be drawn, and its the colour above someone's head to your own, there needs to be a very good reason for me to kill a allied runner, some form of personal insult maybe against me or my clan, but not just going out and blasting someone coz i wanted to.
Unfortunately computer games breed a certain kind of person, they pull them, some have said its a "Counter strike mentallity", i wasn't sure at first what they meant, but then remember how CS was a few years ago and all the "l337" speaking people playing it, i realised then what they meant, these people teamkilled for the sake of doing it, thus ruining the fun for others, Neocron doesn't have limits on friendly fire, but it does have a half arsed system to try and stop people from doing this, that same system nees a boost to stop this.
Someone already mentioned when DOY comes it wil be fun, I don't think so, its hard to imagine anyone from TG getting on with BD members, or Crahn getting on with FA, or TS getting on with BD, these are what is enemy atm, but what about Crahn with TG, or Crahn with BD, all of these people, myself included here are going to be on the same side, or that is what is meant to be with DOY, will the Pro NC side laugh at us coz we just go around pking our own side? or will people grow up one day and smell the coffee and realise you can have fun without pissing on your allied/friends/sides gametime fun.
I posted to much again, but you lot know by now thats just me, when i got something to say.
ResurgencE
11-06-04, 13:22
Beleive what you want. I go to red rock mine occasionally, on my way through the area or to hack a layer...if I get close to the turrets, they open up on me. And I am clanned...course there's only one member in my clan.
It is your own arrogance and denial which causes you to blatantly lie like this. You specifically said THIS:
I'm biotech, i've killed alot of FA and the security turrets in TH don't let me through the front door much
Meaning the turrets in TECH HAVEN shot you due to low FA symp, despite the fact that you're a clanned BT runner, and this is impossible. Now you're claiming that what you stated was that turrets at a particular FA OP shoot at you (which they should, since they're prolly set up like that via the CC).
Of course, i find your denial to be characteristic of the faction you favour. Last night in PP, a tank from your uber clan who ezza seems to find a 'nice guy', took a potshot at me from the back while i was on my own tank. I whipped around and we fought it out. Towards the end, the PE who accompanied him realised he was going to lose face, and jumped in to try and save him. The tank still died.
Later on, he claimed that a TT tank standing there doing nothing was actually helping me. TT is neutral to BD, and hostile to FA, so i found that a wee bit hard to swallow. In order to salvage whatever pride they had, the PE fights me, and when hes losing, runs around the guards in the hopes that ill accidentally hit one and get creamed. I zone out with 200 HP and logged my apu because without a reticle, i dont have to worry about accidentally hitting the guards as the coward runs rings around them. When i stumble on the scene, the guys ecstatic about 'owning Tuxy', so i let 'er rip with fire apocalyspe and, despite the fact that 2 melee tanks and a ppu have joined their side, i get him to zone. He denies that i got the better of him, and challenges me to a duel. I get buffed from a ppu this time, because im quite certain all those BD inside are going to jump me, as was the case when i was fighting 1 vs 1 with the tank earlier. I head in, and lo and behold, they all try and jump me. I let each of them taste some Apoc, before zoning out again.
That day was a good day. Must've killed atleast 10 different members of the BD clan in a couple of hours. Now, to answer your question, am i saying all this because im 'pissed', and you 'got to me'?
In a manner of speaking, yes it is. But it isnt your skill that annoys me, because its always good to see talented players about. Its your attitude, and your denying the circumstances in which you get beat.
This thread had served it's purpose, so i dont really give a rats arse if it gets closed anymore. So this response ought to be sufficient for you and your entire clan, Ezekial. And kindly dont lie about hacking my belts next time around, because you havent. :rolleyes:
this has happened does happen and will happen again. Survival of the lamest i call it. like lemmings. or sheep. baaaaaaaaaaaaah baaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. besides res. look at bd. 2 common enemies. they band to take the threat out. the mercs could have have been paid to do it..... that ladies and gents is roleplay.
I concur, Doc Holiday. The reason i swore at them and left the fight was because i knew they were pro-BD, and yet no one believed me. The following week, they teamed with BD (not ShadoW this time) to try and take FA ops, and then when they failed, many of them switched to BD.
allied factions
bah
goto saturn so fa is in war with mercs, because most of the mercs are bd. so they need to get answer.
some single clan from ca, pp,ts and bio are kos too.
everyone attack fa or there friends need to get answer
welcome to total war
Had it been 3 months earlier, i would have disgreed with this statement. Unfortunately, select players of this game changed the way i think completely. RP is dead, and F6 does not exist for me. As Vet has said, "If i dont like you, i kill you". And theres no sense any of the BDs thinking im a pompous jerk, because im merely emulating you. ;)
Finally, in response to what trigger said about FA getting the chance to be a super-faction and yet 'pissing it all away', you might've noticed that the number of FA runners has halved ever since FA became a powerful faction. This is primarily due to most of our talent leaving the game or taking a break right after Cartel fell the first time. Additionally, many of our members switched to CA, CM, and some even CS. You ought to know about this. Plenty of our members came to you in BD and even created yet ANOTHER clan there.
So in my opinion, the only reason BD retains their power is because people are STILL joining them to date, and the old members arent moving out. Possibly due to the fact that they wont be able to take the heat if they split up. Whereas in FA, we're fighting virtually every single faction, or atleast a clan in every faction. Even at the time when Cartel was about, we fought a select clan in CA, half of PP, and another clan in CM. Now its CS as well as half of TG, so give it a rest about being hardcore, ya?
I feel sorry for the newcomers in this game, who remove their LEs thinking it causes an encumbrance, and then getting shot in the noggin because some of you are trying to incite higher lvl chars to come out and play. The only reason you kill those lowbies is because you can, and theres no denying that. Last night, i saw a BD tank run through PP, and shot him to find 230 pop up over his head. I cornered him and he slashed at me wildly with his junk knife. I took a look at his lvl and then left him alone. Am i a hero? No. Am i considerate? Yes.
You can RP a BD member without being a total arse and taunting everyone about you. You dont HAVE to piss on the hard work of GMs on events and infuriate them to the point of warning you with a ban just to get some attention. I and plenty others could accomplish that as well, but we dont. Common courtesy. Learn it from fellow BD members like Ezza and J0rz.
And when you get taunted after getting killed, you pretend you dont care, whereas its quite apparent that you do, otherwise you wouldnt even bother responding or calling in support. The folks who put on the air of being macho and not caring what others think are actually empty shells inside. So i dont lie about it. I do care. Because this may be a game, but im not an npc. Whatever we tell one another in this game is equivalent to us standing face to face and saying it. Whether it be verbally or through an interface, the fact remains the same. Because there is virtually no difference between someone swearing at us in a chat screen or swearing at us on the street. In both circumstances, what the other person said does not necessarily become true, and he hasnt physically hurt you in anyway either, YET you make it a point to fight back in reality, especially if there're people about.
Now, this l'il article is getting a tad lengthy, so im gonna cut it short here. If you would like to read more about this, i could have provided you with a link in which i debated certain topics like these with the people behind the BD characters. Unfortunately, a certain mod wiped them out because he was in denial and couldnt respond to my allegations. Doesnt take much to figure out which forum im referring to.
The very same one in which the BD who split from TG and FA to form the Cartel were abused incessantly, and yet later on those very same people who apparently held their ground put their tails between their legs and paid the 300 k to switch. :lol:
/Edit One of the guys who was the star of my article is reading this now. See ya in PP once you're done, 'mate'. :p No more dueling now, mind you. Bring all your cronies there, and ill see what i can scrape up of the loyal FA who didnt switch. Its not about how we fight anymore. Its just about ruining the game for each other. "gg no re".
The game has changed a lot since early retail, back then all the factions could get along in levelling etc, it was only specific pkers or clan conflicts based on OP wars that caused the most fighting. You could see it at military base, loads of us from all factions would level there.
Over time faction hopping, reduced numbers, capped player boredom (read:pk) has caused the scene today, where everyone kills at will.
Personally I think its a sad state of affairs, the game lost its innocence in this transition, something it might never recover. The move to a full scale war in BDoY will simply formalise what we see already.
allied factions
bah
goto saturn so fa is in war with mercs, because most of the mercs are bd. so they need to get answer.
some single clan from ca, pp,ts and bio are kos too.
everyone attack fa or there friends need to get answer
welcome to total war
What the fuck are you on? Most CM's are BD?? WTF??? There are about 2-3 at the very most. I'm not going into the politics of it now but at least get ur facts straight.
Anyway, I quite like fact that u can't trust anyone. Gets my heart pimping when someone that u didn't expect attacks you. Makes the game more dynamic. I think it'll be better in BDOY but I like to make the most out of whatever happens rather than bitch about it. Clan/Faction "A" wants war? That's exactly what they get. I don't give a fuck what colour they are.
DjSKum
PS Interfaction PKing is fucking lame but sometimes necessary.
The fact that a clan is even able to exist is a priviledge given to them by their faction, not a right. Repeatedly killing members of an allied faction should get you kicked from your faction, and if necessary, your clan, in order to do so. Clans should only engage in war with other clans from allied factions as a last resort. Repeated wars with allied factions should cause the entire clan to be disbanded. If you REALLY want to kill a particular person/clan, then join a faction which is enemy to them. You honestly think the bosses at BD would let their runners wander around randomly killing ProtoPharm and BioTech runners, factions which they rely on to help in their production of drugs? BD may be bad, but I very much doubt it would be in their best interests from an RP perspective to be at war with every other faction.
Well said Res, i thought your post was excellent and really hits home on a few things.
Well done.
Oh, how i long for Just two sides and a changed SL system.
I hope they penalize more for allied killing. (been guilty of that too, some fucktards were messing up our RP at Crest, i got -26 and -33 SL for it on my chars lol)
BD may be bad, but I very much doubt it would be in their best interests from an RP perspective to be at war with every other faction.
But this is the point, this isn't about RP, its about some kid getting his dick out with his weapon and enjoy pissing over someome.
I would enjoy in time these people forming their own little clan, and the entire server putting them on KOS, would be fun no?
But this is the point, this isn't about RP, its about some kid getting his dick out with his weapon and enjoy pissing over someome.
I would enjoy in time these people forming their own little clan, and the entire server putting them on KOS, would be fun no?
What I'm saying is, since they are seriously damaging their faction, there is every reason to have the entire clan disbanded and the members kicked out of the faction, whether automatically or by the faction councellor. These people know they aren't RPing and they know they are just doing this for the hell of it, so they haven't got anything to stand on if their FC kicks them out.
A few weeks ago I was attacked by an allied faction member, it was a capped or near capped tank so I was lucky to get away with my /45 ish PE. However, I knew he was following me. So, I decided to go through a zone line into an OP zone....created a nice cap between me and the tank, buffed up, healed and jumped into the gunner seat of the Reveler and slaughtered the tank. No SL loss, no Symp loss. After thank he called for backup and more of them came...so I got out of there.
Afterwards I DM'ed him to ask why he attacked me, he said "I am just bored" :wtf:
If this is the case for most of the Allied to Allied Killers, hopefully DoY will bring a higher population and therefore more enemies to kill so people don't have to kill allies to get their jollies (or in this case, die to one :D)
ResurgencE
11-06-04, 16:02
Well said Res, i thought your post was excellent and really hits home on a few things.
Well done.
Thankee-u, matey. :)
The reason i went off on a tangent back there is merely because the aforementioned people disturb me. They make it a point to hurl insults at other people for virtually no reason, simply to derive enjoyment.
At the end of the day, this is a game. But it can be abused, so play it with etiquette. Heres a transcript of an exchange between ezza and myself earlier today, via PMs. I wrote:
But when it comes down to throwing mud on someone, thats where i draw the line. Take Divide, for example. When i bought Magnazan's account (yes, i have no girlfriend and thus have nothing else to spend money on), he dm'd me asking me if i was still magz. I responded in the negative. He informed me that magz had his FL and never returned it to him. Now, that obviously has nothing to do with me. Not only did i pay for the item, but the guys hostile to me. But i still handed it back to him. Now, whenever we see one another in PP, we mash each other's brains out. But ask Divide himself if he recalls an unpleasant exchange between us even ONCE. THATS all im asking for. Just shaddup and play the damn game.
Simple as that. Dont be like certain BD members, who do the following:
Ive noticed that with the exclusion of yourself and a few others, BD actually does think its hardcore. Perhaps as a faction united, it is. But when most of them are alone and have no support, they tend to cower. Many a times ive noticed in PP that when a BD walks in and there're too many FA about, he just stands there. They shoot him a bit. He refuses to hit back. Then he stands about to make conversation with us. We leave him alone. The MINUTE his ppu support + bandwagon enter PP, he begins to attack us in the back while we're typing, and then taunts whoever he managed to kill, when not 5 minutes ago, he was being social.
Even when you beat them, they get so infuriated that they feel the need to somehow make you look bad. Its common knowledge that there're two ways to reach someone else's level in whatever field they may excel at. One is to practice until you can compete with him, the other is to bring the guy down. Its VERY difficult to accomplish the former, so most people take the second route.
If i had a dollar for everytime someone i killed tried to taunt me by telling me i buy accounts because i have no skill, i'd be a friggin zillionare. In response to these individuals:
I have 4 capped chars on my own account. I want more variety. I cant be arsed to lvl more chars and outfit them all, since frankly, after a year of lvling, item-hunting, et al, its gotten to be a tedious task. So i opted to purchase pre-made accounts from folks who were quitting the game. The people who seem to think my skill is questionable due to this are the very same people who claim they prefer this game to Sw:G because it REQUIRES skill, and therefore its paradoxical to claim otherwise. Its not because i dont have the 'skill' to obtain my own items (which i did for my own 4 chars. And FYI, if you require 'skill' to take down WBs for techs, i think its time you rethink your setups), but that i dont have the time.
What has the fact that there was a previous owner to the account got to do with me? The car you drive wasnt 'made' by you either. But when you buy it, are you not the owner?
Its also paradoxical to me when someone tells me i 'pay for pixels', when they're doing precisely the same every ding-dong month in order to obtain the very same items. So here...
*Throws a wad of bills in their faces*
...Go buy yourselves an account. You'll need it.
A few days ago i came across a person who was TG who was trying to kill my TG char in the aggies. After being caught off guard i quickly ran out of the aggies and he followed me. The following conversation took place:
Me: WTF are you doing?
Him: Killing you
Me: But you aren't supposed to kill allies
Him: I'm not your ally, I'm BD
Me: Well it says that your TG under your name
Him: I'm really a BD, I just made this char to hack TG belts
Me: ...
Why can't people just follow the fucking faction system regardless of who their alts are? Its simple enough, and they even coloured the factions to show whether your allied, neutral or enemies...
cobrajay157
11-06-04, 18:43
(Brother posting not owner of name) ok i pick protopharm to start with so i dont have too many enemies and i can try to lvl in peace til im ready to PvP. Ok well im lvling at MB bunker and out of no where some BD runners come there, I think oh im allied im fine. Well I see why everyone keeps there le in there, they go and pk me (mind you im a x/40 spy. I go back get the guys name and talk with him to ask wth he was going. And he goes something like look at my clan name, other than that i didnt understand cuz he cant speak correctly, anyways the clan he in is H.A.T.E.. Now come'on something has to be done here. Also after i talked to him and chased me down, not hard to catch a noob with a capped pe, and killed me again. :mad: :mad:
Other people play this game, your right. I have my opinions, I pay for 2 accounts, and I want to kill people. So, your saying if some FA or CM who ive fought for the past year, and actually might generaly dislike, decides to go BD, all of a sudden I just cant kill them anymore, and we have to be buddies? Screw that. I dont kill people in my clan... thats about it. If I see some punk unclanned BD using an op my clan owns, I know hes just some leech trying to use our territory, so I kill him. Same for crahn, PP, bio, etc.
KK HAS to make a mad killer faction. Im up for draw backs, say we cant enter any city or HQ without being shot at. but there are thoes of us that do want to shoot everything in sight, give us the option.
Pretty soon its going to be NC vs DOY, the enemy side will likely kill you on sight. So kill to many allies and you will have nowhere to go when DOY hits :P
Money/exp loss (or a bounty, where the pay for the one who kills you comes from your own money) for killing allies would be good, that way it doesnt take away the freedom of just killing anyone but there would be hefty penalties like their should be.
HatchetRyda
11-06-04, 19:57
Deal with it or quit.
Maloch Octavia
11-06-04, 20:26
Deal with it or quit.
[ edited ]
Here's another great example of why this is a wank situation:
Faction 'x' Clan requests Faction 'y' Clans help with Outpost taking.
A lot of Ops have just been recently ninja'd, and 'x' wants to have fun taking some back, so they try it themselves, and struggle, because of the wank UG Rules.
They get Faction 'y' Clan to come help, whom are an Allied Faction, to give them a hand. By no, 'x' don't want any Ops, they just want the fun of helping to take them. So they hack the first two layers for 'y'.
Enemy appears, 'x' and 'y' smack them down, the Outpost becomes 'y' Factions Outpost, and then..........
'Y' Faction turns around and slaughters 'X' Faction.
The first thing we know is over TS...
"Hey.. 'y' has just killed 'xxxx' in her Reveller.... Holy shit, they've turned on 'xxxxx' RUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuun!!!!!!"
We all get wiped, they fuck our bodies, kill and kill some more.
I'm the last one left alive, cowering behind a building, nowhere to run, suppossed Allies running around now fighting each other, when eventually I'm found and killed.
The guy in charge just shrugged.
Tell me this is right?
It fucking isn't.
Richard Blade
11-06-04, 21:08
KK doesn't have to do anything. They've already given us a virtual world. The key is that they've given us a framework to allow us to roleplay. But, the people who "just want to kill" are going to make it impossible for others who are trying to roleplay. I would figure they are the reason right now why nobody bothers to try. At least, openly, nobody tries.
How can someone try to roleplay when someone who is supposed to be allied and maybe even a supplier of in game products kills them before they have a chance to try roleplaying. Or even worse, their ally kills them for roleplaying.
I usually totally disagree with VetteroX, but this time, he might have something. Besides an ego :P, his idea of a "mad killer" faction. We have one. And, no, it's not Anarchy Breed.
It's the mutants. Make a viable class of mutant type character.
1. Mutant versions of human classes.
2. No soul light hits for killing normal humans.
3. Massive soul light hits for killing NPC's(Traders, Epic, etc. but not guards). Same as everyone else. Regular soul light hits for killing their own kind. (not mobs)
4. No access to inner city areas. Only in Outzone, MB, TH, Canyons, and "bad" sections of DoY. No access to newbie leveling areas. However, the main sewers would be cool.
5. If for some reason they do get into the city, other than for events, Copbots and Guards should shoot them on sight. Or maybe even just have them die on zoning.
6. LE's are still in effect. It loses any RP aspect, but newbies still need protection. Being a mutant isn't a liscense to grief.
Tell me this is right?
That situation isn't right, nor should it be allowed to happen.
Maybe a Neutral clan in a faction that is known to be criminal, but not an Ally no matter what their standing.
nah fuck mutants, though vet is right a mad killa faction would be nice and would help all those people who dont like the allie killing stuff, however that doesnt mean its going to stop
it cant be anarchy breed as they have allied, but it should be that name since what these killers are bringing in is anarchy to the game
(Brother posting not owner of name) ok i pick protopharm to start with so i dont have too many enemies and i can try to lvl in peace til im ready to PvP. Ok well im lvling at MB bunker and out of no where some BD runners come there, I think oh im allied im fine. Well I see why everyone keeps there le in there, they go and pk me (mind you im a x/40 spy. I go back get the guys name and talk with him to ask wth he was going. And he goes something like look at my clan name, other than that i didnt understand cuz he cant speak correctly, anyways the clan he in is H.A.T.E.. Now come'on something has to be done here. Also after i talked to him and chased me down, not hard to catch a noob with a capped pe, and killed me again.
lmao, well unless the real hate have reactivated without my knowing, i belive that is Revslad, saw him with the HATE tag, and if he plays it like hate used to then get used to being killed as HATE were allie killers, theykilled anyone and everyone, and tbh maybe its just be but they were one of the most fun clans around.
im not getting at the thread starter here, but havnt we all gone a little light weight.
i mean i was used to being attacked killed killing allies eearly retail, its only cos its got hard to keep killing allies is the reason its reduced.
ok i can understand you dont like the looking over your shoulder style, but me im wary all the time
Gotterdammerung
11-06-04, 21:14
There are a couple of people in this thread that are letting their emotions get the better of them. The comments in that edit above were totally out of line. This thread has already had a few complaints and is walking a thin line. If you can't post in an intelligent fashion then take a break and come back when you can
Anarchy Breed only have "allies" (And hostiles) because of their ideology and laid-back lifestyle. Just because they have "Anarchy" in their name doesn't mean they're Ub3r m4d killaz.
Peace.
-Moscow
Anarchy Breed only have "allies" (And hostiles) because of their ideology and laid-back lifestyle. Just because they have "Anarchy" in their name doesn't mean they're Ub3r m4d killaz.
Peace.
-Moscow
thats for telling me stuff i already know :rolleyes:
the killing is bringing anarchy to the game
really i dont give a shit what the name is i was just saying that is a reason to make it that faction since it is a redudant faction atm
rofl laid back life style being anarchist.
man that would make me one hell of a anarchy breeder
thats for telling me stuff i already know :rolleyes:
Don't get too high on it; I wasn't talking to you specifically.
the killing is bringing anarchy to the game
Hardly. Random killing is hardly "bringing anarchy" to the game, especially when you consider most, if not all, of the "killers" immediatly retreat to safe-zones soon after their escapades.
really i dont give a shit what the name is i was just saying that is a reason to make it that faction since it is a redudant faction atm
A lot of factions are redundant at the moment; more so after the waves of faction hoppers had their way. So what's your point? If anything, Anarchy Breed shouldn't be the "killer" faction.
Even anarchists have a degree of self-control and respect when it comes to dealing with others.
rofl laid back life style being anarchist.
man that would make me one hell of a anarchy breeder
Their lifestyle is just one part of it, not the whole thing.
Peace.
-Moscow
Anarchy Breed aren't killers, they are a bunch of hippies without jobs. :p
Its almost not worth getting into examples of what is a worthwhile kill of an allied runner because I have a feeling none of you will care about the examples I give anyways, so I wont waste your time and mine with it. But as Ive stated, Im BD, I kill who I want regardless of faction. And despite what this may lead you to believe, I have very good relationships with the predominate PP, BT, and CS clans on Pluto. But that doesnt mean Im gonna take a ridiculous symp hit from killing some rogue BT runner who attacks me first.
It sounds to me like most peoples complaints are from players on the 4 char servers whose alts situation is biting them in the ass. So sorry, you take the pluses along with the minuses in that situation. I suggest learning to live with it.
As I stated earlier, losing symp for killing allies is a GREAT idea, BUT only if I gain massive amounts of symp for killing enemy runners. If you want to ride the F6 train, then I can too.
Bah my final thoughts on this thread now are this.
If ya wanna be a mad killa faction, go play CS or some shit like that, this game has factions and they have allies, if you can't keep your dick in your pants over some poor player in front of you with a green tag you got serious social problems it seems to me.
This game has a system in place that will punish you for killing a ally, its just not strong enough to stop you doing it in the first place, hopefully KK are taking note of this thread and thinking about it a little more, I would love to see some retards face when they lose something like 20 points in their own faction for killling a ally and losing big SL, would be so funny.
For me, if your an ally, i guess now ill watch my back, more so around BD coz i know they cant be trusted, not the faction but i mean some of the players in it, which is a shame asi played played BD over a year ago on Saturn when the clan "black dragon" was in the faction, there was no faction pking going on then thats for sure.
So from now on, people be careful around all types of factions, regardless of colour, unless you know the person, and never trust a so called ally over a outpost battle, you just never know anymore.
trigger hurt
12-06-04, 04:23
It is your own arrogance and denial which causes you to blatantly lie like this. You specifically said THIS:
Meaning the turrets in TECH HAVEN shot you due to low FA symp, despite the fact that you're a clanned BT runner, and this is impossible. Now you're claiming that what you stated was that turrets at a particular FA OP shoot at you (which they should, since they're prolly set up like that via the CC).
Of course, i find your denial to be characteristic of the faction you favour. Last night in PP, a tank from your uber clan who ezza seems to find a 'nice guy', took a potshot at me from the back while i was on my own tank. I whipped around and we fought it out. Towards the end, the PE who accompanied him realised he was going to lose face, and jumped in to try and save him. The tank still died.
Later on, he claimed that a TT tank standing there doing nothing was actually helping me. TT is neutral to BD, and hostile to FA, so i found that a wee bit hard to swallow. In order to salvage whatever pride they had, the PE fights me, and when hes losing, runs around the guards in the hopes that ill accidentally hit one and get creamed. I zone out with 200 HP and logged my apu because without a reticle, i dont have to worry about accidentally hitting the guards as the coward runs rings around them. When i stumble on the scene, the guys ecstatic about 'owning Tuxy', so i let 'er rip with fire apocalyspe and, despite the fact that 2 melee tanks and a ppu have joined their side, i get him to zone. He denies that i got the better of him, and challenges me to a duel. I get buffed from a ppu this time, because im quite certain all those BD inside are going to jump me, as was the case when i was fighting 1 vs 1 with the tank earlier. I head in, and lo and behold, they all try and jump me. I let each of them taste some Apoc, before zoning out again.
That day was a good day. Must've killed atleast 10 different members of the BD clan in a couple of hours. Now, to answer your question, am i saying all this because im 'pissed', and you 'got to me'?
In a manner of speaking, yes it is. But it isnt your skill that annoys me, because its always good to see talented players about. Its your attitude, and your denying the circumstances in which you get beat.
This thread had served it's purpose, so i dont really give a rats arse if it gets closed anymore. So this response ought to be sufficient for you and your entire clan, Ezekial. And kindly dont lie about hacking my belts next time around, because you havent. :rolleyes:
I concur, Doc Holiday. The reason i swore at them and left the fight was because i knew they were pro-BD, and yet no one believed me. The following week, they teamed with BD (not ShadoW this time) to try and take FA ops, and then when they failed, many of them switched to BD.
Had it been 3 months earlier, i would have disgreed with this statement. Unfortunately, select players of this game changed the way i think completely. RP is dead, and F6 does not exist for me. As Vet has said, "If i dont like you, i kill you". And theres no sense any of the BDs thinking im a pompous jerk, because im merely emulating you. ;)
Finally, in response to what trigger said about FA getting the chance to be a super-faction and yet 'pissing it all away', you might've noticed that the number of FA runners has halved ever since FA became a powerful faction. This is primarily due to most of our talent leaving the game or taking a break right after Cartel fell the first time. Additionally, many of our members switched to CA, CM, and some even CS. You ought to know about this. Plenty of our members came to you in BD and even created yet ANOTHER clan there.
So in my opinion, the only reason BD retains their power is because people are STILL joining them to date, and the old members arent moving out. Possibly due to the fact that they wont be able to take the heat if they split up. Whereas in FA, we're fighting virtually every single faction, or atleast a clan in every faction. Even at the time when Cartel was about, we fought a select clan in CA, half of PP, and another clan in CM. Now its CS as well as half of TG, so give it a rest about being hardcore, ya?
I feel sorry for the newcomers in this game, who remove their LEs thinking it causes an encumbrance, and then getting shot in the noggin because some of you are trying to incite higher lvl chars to come out and play. The only reason you kill those lowbies is because you can, and theres no denying that. Last night, i saw a BD tank run through PP, and shot him to find 230 pop up over his head. I cornered him and he slashed at me wildly with his junk knife. I took a look at his lvl and then left him alone. Am i a hero? No. Am i considerate? Yes.
You can RP a BD member without being a total arse and taunting everyone about you. You dont HAVE to piss on the hard work of GMs on events and infuriate them to the point of warning you with a ban just to get some attention. I and plenty others could accomplish that as well, but we dont. Common courtesy. Learn it from fellow BD members like Ezza and J0rz.
And when you get taunted after getting killed, you pretend you dont care, whereas its quite apparent that you do, otherwise you wouldnt even bother responding or calling in support. The folks who put on the air of being macho and not caring what others think are actually empty shells inside. So i dont lie about it. I do care. Because this may be a game, but im not an npc. Whatever we tell one another in this game is equivalent to us standing face to face and saying it. Whether it be verbally or through an interface, the fact remains the same. Because there is virtually no difference between someone swearing at us in a chat screen or swearing at us on the street. In both circumstances, what the other person said does not necessarily become true, and he hasnt physically hurt you in anyway either, YET you make it a point to fight back in reality, especially if there're people about.
Now, this l'il article is getting a tad lengthy, so im gonna cut it short here. If you would like to read more about this, i could have provided you with a link in which i debated certain topics like these with the people behind the BD characters. Unfortunately, a certain mod wiped them out because he was in denial and couldnt respond to my allegations. Doesnt take much to figure out which forum im referring to.
The very same one in which the BD who split from TG and FA to form the Cartel were abused incessantly, and yet later on those very same people who apparently held their ground put their tails between their legs and paid the 300 k to switch. :lol:
/Edit One of the guys who was the star of my article is reading this now. See ya in PP once you're done, 'mate'. :p No more dueling now, mind you. Bring all your cronies there, and ill see what i can scrape up of the loyal FA who didnt switch. Its not about how we fight anymore. Its just about ruining the game for each other. "gg no re".
I'll reply to you both in kind.
1- Red Rock mine is basically the front door to Tech Haven. It's right beside it. I said "front door", i was never specific as to where that is. They still shoot me, fact.
2- It's funny that you think you know so much about me but yet you know nothing about me. If you want to know what I used to be like, ask StryfeX. Back when he and I got along and I was a leader of Saiyan Empire, I wasn't this way...but I've taken the taunts and name calling from people just like you for long enough. Now I'm just playing the way I want to play. You argue about role-play...Why can't I role-play a whiney asshole on my main char and be completly different on my other chars? Isn't that what rp is all about? Seperating multiple chars from each other, giving them their own personallity? Before you judge me for my actions "in game" take a look at yourself. You are insulting me, a person you have never met...on a fucking forum. Laughable.
As for Yoda. I quoted your own words. You called us "cocks". Someone else called us retards. Another call us assholes, morons, greifers, dickheads...go down the list. These same people claim to play on a higher sphere...meaning...they play on a different more cranial level than us cocks, assholes, retards and greifers...yet you are insulting us...bringing yourselves down to our level...OUT OF CHARACTER.
The guys and I from Cartel talk on teamspeak quite often. During our chats, we usually end up talking about Neocron in some way. The one thing that is common among all of us is that we like fighting. Win or Lose, we like to fight (there are the real people, not the characters...i think i might need to seperate the two for you). One thing many of us have in common is our disdain for people who bitch all the time...any chance they get...they bitch, they complain...they try to find any way they can to get that asshole who just pk'd them banned, kicked, whatever...You will never understand why we do what we do. But, I understand why you do what you do because I have been there...I was the whiney little carebear hiding in tech haven begging the big bad TG not to kill me. Then, one day...I stood up for myself...accepted I might lose some soullight and faction sympathy...but it was totally satisfying knowing that I killed that asshole finally and I didn't have to whine about him anymore.
Try it sometime.
trigger hurt
12-06-04, 04:36
In a manner of speaking, yes it is. But it isnt your skill that annoys me, because its always good to see talented players about. Its your attitude, and your denying the circumstances in which you get beat.
Last thing and I guess this thread will be over.
You speak of my skill...but what you dont realize that when I win a fight against someone, it has nothing to do with skill. I suck at pvp, ask anyone I have fought and lost against, they will tell you...hell, ask the people I've beaten (small list) and they will tell you the same. I got lucky...they goofed up and I took advantage of their goof in time to save my skin.
I've never denied any circumstances where I have lost. Most times when I lose it's because someone stacked fire on me (im weak to fire see) and I go down like a stone. I don't fight "intellgently"...I just go in guns blazing hoping to score a shot. That is how I get my enjoyment from this game...because NOONE on saturn knows how to RP...trust me...i've tried it...it doesnt work...people laugh, call you names and then don't participate. Why should I make anymore effort than I already have. It's not fun to be killed on your recyling/poking/repair/pistol spy who has just enough resists to fight firemobs or warbots and the guy stands over you, sexing your corpse like he accomplished an amazing feat. That's why you hear me on trade being an asshole...not because I died..but because the person who killed me thinks they just pk'd the most uber guy in neocron.
Like I said...you guys need to grow up and accept that there might be people on the end of the wire who don't care for your style of play...and you forcing it on them will only make them less receptive and much more hostile.
Yoda, Id love to see the look on your face when KK actually makes the game less carebear, and I as an "ally" kill you and then have you ress killed over and over... once again, this game is for people who like maximum pvp combat, if you dont like a dangerous pvp world, play the sims. You carebears are the ones in the wrong for trying to push your views on us, I personaly like killing as many people as possible, If you dont like it, tough... learn my chars names and keep an eye on your local radar.
lol Whats this the bash BD thread . By now most know that there are no faction loyalitys no rp there is only sides . When it comes to it you chose what side your on and you will fight . you can be on the side of bd or cm ect and their enemys become your enemys and when you have alot of enemys you dont wait for an allied person to attack you first its them or you when it comes to it , and as it has been said before if you dont like someone you attack them no matter what faction or clan .
Yoda, Id love to see the look on your face when KK actually makes the game less carebear, and I as an "ally" kill you and then have you ress killed over and over... once again, this game is for people who like maximum pvp combat, if you dont like a dangerous pvp world, play the sims. You carebears are the ones in the wrong for trying to push your views on us, I personaly like killing as many people as possible, If you dont like it, tough... learn my chars names and keep an eye on your local radar.
Exactly why they need to make allies untargetable.
If you can't play within the rules then KK just needs to make them impossible to break. Why it would even occur to you to kill someone that is allied is beyond me. "They're spies" or "they helped our enemies" doesn't cut it. What you're doing is ignoring the considerable effort that your faction's leaders have gone to to engender positive relations between your faction and their allies.
Put another way, why can't you honor the storyline? If you're Tangent you have no legitimate quarrel with, for example, a City Admin. Killing one of them, whether it's in an anarchy zone, war zone, or hunting zone, would be looked upon as the worst violation of your faction's own rules and ought to result in your own guards putting you on KOS, banning you from faction HQ, even booting you from your faction into the "I drop all my stuff" bad guys faction.
I can only think of one time in my NC career that I've blown away an ally and that was 100% an accident in the middle of a heated op fight (sorry Stryfe, you looked like the other smurf :p)
If you want a game without rules or factions I don't know what to tell you, Neocron has both. Obviously the penalties aren't strong enough.
Richard Blade
12-06-04, 05:27
Like I said...you guys need to grow up and accept that there might be people on the end of the wire who don't care for your style of play...and you forcing it on them will only make them less receptive and much more hostile.
This statement is eloquently written and actually works for both sides in this thread.
Both sides of this issue are tired of the hatred and abuse that comes from the other side.
I guess the only way to solve it is for KK to make an economic decision and tell which group to take the flying cake walk.
"Sorry PKarrzz, it's time for fantasy land."
"Sorry cearbears, it's time for NeoTeamCounterQuakeOcron."
Previous statements exagerated in lieu of a sense of humor.
Gotterdammerung
12-06-04, 05:30
pissing contest closed
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