View Full Version : Neocrons best part... please dont remove it in DoY
The best part of Neocron is HQ raiding... no discusion. Not trade skilling, not leveling on horrible AI mobs, not chatting, not op waring, HQ riading > all.
Today we raided MB, and it was SOOO much better then any op war. We told the mercs we were comming, and we had a big fight. Every class was involved, as were vehicles. Rhino vs Rhino, pes, spies, tanks, ppus, apus running around... no waiting an hour for everyone to get togeather, no ninja hacking, no synchronizing, no lag, no horrible fps because there too much going on, no turret whoring, UG whoring, no "no class X allowed because its useless" The battle raged on for a long time, outside MB, inside MB, back and forth, constant action... soooo superior to an op war in every way, shape, and form.
PLEASE dont make HQ's unraidable in DoY, if people wanna be safe they can learn to defend, or actually USE apartments! Its the best part of the game hands down.
When they said HQs and bars would be safe zones I assumed they meant those in Neocron city and maybe DOY. I highly doubt they will add a safezone to MB, TH, or TG. Especially since TH and TG are going to be Super Ops that can be taken. As for the safe zones in neocron being HQs .. will it matter much as the whole city itself outside can become a battlezone . . . well maybe we'll see how well that turns out with guards like copbots being around and such. city battles will have to be large scale events and not a single runner or two trying to random pk.
Raidable? Yes they certainly should. It should be no easy thing to do, but yes it should be possible. As much as it pains me to agree with Vet (;)) raiding enemy faction HQ's should be just an important a part of inter faction PvP as OP wars.
I disagree with the "People should learn to defend themselves!" part, as not everyone has the time to put umpteen hours into creating the perfect combat character, but HQ's should deffinately be a prime place of combat.
Then again Neocron is going to become Empire Vs. Empire rather than faction vs 2-3 factions vs 2-3 factions . clan vs clan. So HQs won't be as important as cities. You'll be raiding whole cities, Super Op Cities, and Ops.
Neocron Vs. DOY
That's how it's going and how it will turn out in the end.
Mumblyfish
09-06-04, 23:38
Neocron Vs. DOY
That's how it's going and how it will turn out in the end.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Fucking hell, say that's a lie. Say that isn't true at all, and that you're just pulling these facts out of your arse.
Otherwise I'm sticking with the classic servers, if they ever come.
The battle raged on for a long time, outside MB, inside MB, back and forth, constant action... soooo superior to an op war in every way, shape, and form.
It was a very good battle... but there have been OP wars that have been equally epic, I recall a 4 hour battle with BD over emmerson as being the longest single fight I've participated in. What makes it exciting is the lack of Warzone - you actually care about dying.
One thing that annoys me - faction guards need to be massively improved - they are shite right now. In fact they get in the way of the defenders by being so shite.
I'd much rather KK reworked their AI. Simple rules of engagement:
#1 Target selection - kill the weak & wounded first. APUs > Tanks > PPUs > PEs > Spies target selection
#2 React to runner actions, if a Tangent attacks a Merc then the guards should pummel the fuck out of him.
#3 Reduce the number - big time. I'd rather have smart guards in good locations who actually add value to the defence than an army of useless statues.
Lastly there should be a reward for winning a HQ raid. The concept of hacking them is flawed. I don't honestly believe KK would ever be able to make that work without carnage. There should be some sort of reward for the hackers though... whether its a rare dropped by a base commander or something similar.
Good fight tonight Vett.
R
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Fucking hell, say that's a lie. Say that isn't true at all, and that you're just pulling these facts out of your arse.
Otherwise I'm sticking with the classic servers, if they ever come.
with no safezones i think complete city raids would be a million times better then HQ raids, i can imagine a hundred players from doy attacking 100 players inside neocron and everyone flooding the streets, would be great. and since MJS says they are lowering the strength of copbots so a large group would be able to take one or two down quite easily, it could actually work.
good fight, but I have no idea what guards you are thinking about... theres many more calls on TS that go "shit! healp heal heal guards raping me... oh shit fucking guards!!!" then help vs players. Thoes guards are really a pain in the ass... need to be weakened.
Dribble Joy
09-06-04, 23:52
I really really really hope MB/TG/TH is not a safe zone with DoY, it would suck so much.
with no safezones i think complete city raids would be a million times better then HQ raids, i can imagine a hundred players from doy attacking 100 players inside neocron and everyone flooding the streets, would be great. and since MJS says they are lowering the strength of copbots so a large group would be able to take one or two down quite easily, it could actually work.
I agree . .those satisfied with HQ raids are satisfied with chump change. Bring on the epic battles!
Who cares if TH is a safe zone in BDoY or not, the FA HQ has been moved to the DoY anyway... snif... :(
good fight, but I have no idea what guards you are thinking about... theres many more calls on TS that go "shit! healp heal heal guards raping me... oh shit fucking guards!!!" then help vs players. Thoes guards are really a pain in the ass... need to be weakened.
thats cause theres dozens of them - its the only way they can make them effective.
I'd rather have 10 good guards located in good locations than the 3000 crazy ones we have now.
Heavyporker
09-06-04, 23:59
weaker copbots might be tolerable as long as stormbots still stay uber, and more are added to the gates outside Neocron.
the damn Dome got 5000000000000000000000000 guards in several sectors, not just the gates.
Oh, and copbots better have good reinforcement-call ability. NCPD surviellance drones better have some damage capability or are able beam video of the action directly to other Neocron zones.
There still has to be SOME safezones in the factional bases.
The question of what happens to apts in the factional bases hasn't been answered either.
The best part of Neocron is HQ raiding... no discusion. Not trade skilling, not leveling on horrible AI mobs, not chatting, not op waring, HQ riading > all.
I've always had more fun in quality op wars than any HQ raids serving as offense and defense.
Stop acting so high and mighty like your word is unadulterated truth and speaks for us all. :p
Besides, quality guards mean that raids are actually raids with large groups, not some small group of 2 or 3 people looking to stir up crap out of boredom. HQ's are the homebases of factions, so it would make total nonsense for them to not have effective defenses.
ya raidings fun, i aint doing much of it atm cos i aint really playing much but its one of the fun things in the game.
i can pretty much guarentee running into Vet at the MB as well :lol:
if they turned it into safe zones i could see a lot of zone whoreing going on
and dont start the hiding behind the guards thing, TH is pathetic, dont make CM or TG the same.
CM whatever people may think of them, have always been good for a fight.
from 44 Mac 101st FLR right up to phoenix and XTC, although i may not like members of those clans(the latter 2 not the first ones) they put up a good fight.
FA are more "meh cant be arsed to fight, i know lets get Iorghe(spelling) to throw a shit load of turrets and carebear the area"
tomparadox
10-06-04, 01:57
but there have been OP wars that have been equally epic, I recall a 4 hour battle with BD over emmerson as being the longest single fight I've participated in. What makes it exciting is the lack of Warzone - you actually care about dying.
yep, iv been in a lot of epic ones sens beta 2...
damn that sounds like it would have been fun :/ wish i would have been there...
yea i agree dont remove HQ raiding.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Fucking hell, say that's a lie. Say that isn't true at all, and that you're just pulling these facts out of your arse.
Otherwise I'm sticking with the classic servers, if they ever come.
i agree, ill still get DoY though because it has a lot to offer and shit, but i hope that there is still HQ raiding, unless its like the CA and all anti DoY/BD/crahn/ts factions are going to raid DoY at once. and remember, TS is anti CA so i think them and BD are going to DOY, TS and BD = enamys.
trigger hurt
10-06-04, 03:04
It was a very good battle... but there have been OP wars that have been equally epic, I recall a 4 hour battle with BD over emmerson as being the longest single fight I've participated in. What makes it exciting is the lack of Warzone - you actually care about dying.
One thing that annoys me - faction guards need to be massively improved - they are shite right now. In fact they get in the way of the defenders by being so shite.
I'd much rather KK reworked their AI. Simple rules of engagement:
#1 Target selection - kill the weak & wounded first. APUs > Tanks > PPUs > PEs > Spies target selection
#2 React to runner actions, if a Tangent attacks a Merc then the guards should pummel the fuck out of him.
#3 Reduce the number - big time. I'd rather have smart guards in good locations who actually add value to the defence than an army of useless statues.
Lastly there should be a reward for winning a HQ raid. The concept of hacking them is flawed. I don't honestly believe KK would ever be able to make that work without carnage. There should be some sort of reward for the hackers though... whether its a rare dropped by a base commander or something similar.
Good fight tonight Vett.
R
Im not sure if vett was around for that fight...he may have come in to join in the fun...but it was one of THE best fights I have seen in a long time before or since. Sadly, op fights have been quite dull recently. I go to them on my spy in hopes of getting some sniping kills, but I generally end up dead because the fight becomes up close and personal before I make it to the higher ground.
I don't think that the gaurds need to be made stronger. I've always agreed with vet on this, that gaurds are too strong. Making them weaker would force runners to either fight or flee, not huddle around the gaurds, praying for an errant shot to strike one of them. It's not just mercs or tg or ts doing it, it's everyone that fights near gaurds. Frankly, it stinks.
Yes, make them a bit smarter. I'd even be ok with the "don't warn em, just shoot em" philosophy...after all, we are the enemy...we should be shot on site, but if a gaurds aggros on a runner, unless he's a ppu, he's most likely going to die...and that's without any aid from the other runners in the area. A faction gaurds should not be unkillable (as they are now).
Heavyporker
10-06-04, 05:02
I firmly believe that faction guards shouldn't be soloable.
Psychoninja
10-06-04, 05:22
I love HQ raiding!
Still sad we can't pick fights at TH anymore, it's suicide.
Had alot of fun in that 2 Hour TG raid today on saturn today :o
Gotta give people credit for having the balls to come down and defend.
ResurgencE
10-06-04, 07:10
FA are more "meh cant be arsed to fight, i know lets get Iorge(spelling) to throw a shit load of turrets and carebear the area"
When the turrets were first introduced, some folks in factions hostile to FA posted a poll on these forums asking for people's opinions on lowering/removing the TH turrets.
I voted in their favour. But thanks for generalizing. ;)
By the way, it'd also be great to have certain locations in which BD, TT and crahn are forced to hang out and arent safe zones or capable of being abused by zone-whores, too. Much like how you can expect to find plenty of TG in the canyons most of the time, due to the excellent hunting areas and caves surrounding it. What infuriated me the most was that after a raid on TH, the only way we could hit back was by taking an OP, and as Vet has already proclaimed, faction raiding > fighting op wars. I recall when TT would constantly raid TH on a daily basis, and we wouldnt really be able to return the favour.
Its just funny to me how certain people constantly ask for faction guards in HQs to be reduced, yet dont also ask for raidable factions for themselves in which escape is unlikely. Heres how i would like the game to be.
TH = Provide some reasons for FA to hang around in their HQ like good hunting grounds with unique drops and an incentive to tradeskill there, and weaken/remove the turrets. Atleast in key locations, so that our enemies can enter the damn structure.
FA hostiles, such as BD for example: Give them the same. Currently, one of the only places i can theoretically 'raid' for BD is PP, and that sector leads right into a safe zone.
Works both ways. I'd like to go on the offensive sometimes as well. That is, if its alright with you BD. ;)
Hopefully, these changes will be implemented with the expansion, so lets just wait and see.
trigger hurt
10-06-04, 07:15
I firmly believe that faction guards shouldn't be soloable.
Im not saying soloable...but if I get within aggro range of a city merc gaurd, whether it be on purpose or because the person I was fighting ran in that direction and I pursued and didnt notice the gaurd...im as good as toast...even if I stealth and run away, he can still hit me from a mile away.
What I really like the most is when you think you've gotten away from the gaurd and poof, you fall over.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Fucking hell, say that's a lie. Say that isn't true at all, and that you're just pulling these facts out of your arse.
Otherwise I'm sticking with the classic servers, if they ever come.
where have you been for the last 6 months? thats the oldest news ever.
where have you been for the last 6 months? thats the oldest news ever.
ot: I was in a store recently and saw 11/9/04 as the new release date for halo 2
anywho, wish I could have come to this hq raid (damns working for the man)
HQ raiding is the funnest part of Neocron, and I think Reakktor see that.
DoY is basicly a much larger scale version of this, right? Removing the faction HQ's might make all people concentrate on one massive raid. A much more magestic and high scale raid than Military Base currently is. Although I do admit it's fun, I'd much prefere a more epic battle. Especially if everyone was involved.
There will always be some lonely git leveling his rank 55 tank in the agressor cellers though. :lol: (I think every server must have one, right?) People from PvM and TeamPvM games need to be told that Neocron is all about the PvP. For some reason they never want to participate in it.
Perhaps make noobies more usefull in OP wars, by giving them small tasks to do. By small tasks I do not mean LE exploits.
When DOY comes out, i'm going to try to get a rally on all pro city factions on a buzzy night to go to the gates of neocron, with rhino's, apc's and all kinds of other vehicles. Just one huge army, and try to go raid DOY itself.
That would be a lot more fun then just HQ raiding.
Just imagine the carnage, the blood, ..... the lag :-)
Just imagine the carnage, the blood, ..... the lag :-)
I'm sure kk said somewhere that they're where either buying better servers or upgrading the ones they have for DoY. Plus the FPS will be a lot smoother if you have a good enough PC.
FA are more "meh cant be arsed to fight, i know lets get Iorge(spelling) to throw a shit load of turrets and carebear the area"
Total BS. FA fought and protected Tech Haven. So much that it detracted from Op wars. Angels take an OP and the previous owners would come to Tech Haven and kill random people in revenge.
Add to that the revoling door of enemies who came in, killed people, left before there was any challange back to their safe Plaza 1.
On Pluto at least FA didn't have the resources to start taking ops again until the turrets came back in.
DOY will turn Canyon/TH (and MB?) into super ops. There will be at least three major factions, City, DOY and AB.
ResurgencE
10-06-04, 09:13
Total BS. FA fought and protected Tech Haven. So much that it detracted from Op wars. Angels take an OP and the previous owners would come to Tech Haven and kill random people in revenge.
True. I recall a few good FA who always stuck around to fight off the invaders just to try and dissuade them from killing the 0/2s in TH.
I'd say a true hardcore faction is less dependant on the F6 menu and more dependant on how many runners are in the factions hostile to it, and how many advantages it has in terms of hitting them on their home ground without having to worry about being hit back. Also, joining the faction with the majority of players, either in quantity or quality, doesnt automatically make you hardcore as well.
Lets worry about making a place for TT/BD lowbies and capped players to hang out first, so that we can counterattack. Then we'll think about revamping the current guard system, mmmkay? ;)
Lets worry about making a place for TT/BD lowbies and capped players to hang out first, so that we can counterattack. Then we'll think about revamping the current guard system, mmmkay? ;)
id be down with that, i think BD should have a area that we can hang out(to peddle drugs, organise hits for you roleplayers out there)
but if were always raiding you wont find us at home :lol:
Mumblyfish
10-06-04, 12:15
where have you been for the last 6 months? thats the oldest news ever.
I never caught any of that in the BDoY news :wtf:
Regardless, if I'm forced to ally with Tangent and lose my alliance with Black Dragon, I'm gonna be pissed.
I never caught any of that in the BDoY news :wtf:
Regardless, if I'm forced to ally with Tangent and lose my alliance with Black Dragon, I'm gonna be pissed.
you proberbly will
Mumblyfish
10-06-04, 12:24
you proberbly will
Meh. In that case, I hope they make bad soullight viable with BDoY, too. I know I won't be alone in wanting to keep the factions as they are.
slaughteruall
10-06-04, 14:35
I've always had more fun in quality op wars than any HQ raids serving as offense and defense.
Stop acting so high and mighty like your word is unadulterated truth and speaks for us all. :p
Besides, quality guards mean that raids are actually raids with large groups, not some small group of 2 or 3 people looking to stir up crap out of boredom. HQ's are the homebases of factions, so it would make total nonsense for them to not have effective defenses.
FA's opinion on HQ raids dont matter. You have way over powered guards on zone lines and guarding your GR's. Your HQ is not really raidable like MB or TG is. I just dont want to hear this kind of thing from a FA carebear who cries that they need more guards not less.
Slaughter
FA's opinion on HQ raids dont matter. You have way over powered guards on zone lines and guarding your GR's. Your HQ is not really raidable like MB or TG is. I just dont want to hear this kind of thing from a FA carebear who cries that they need more guards not less.
Slaughter
You can exclude most factions on similar grounds. Why should BD's opinions matter, when there is never anybody even in Pepper sec 2 to kill on a raid?
I never caught any of that in the BDoY news :wtf:
Regardless, if I'm forced to ally with Tangent and lose my alliance with Black Dragon, I'm gonna be pissed.
Mumbly there is always a space in FA for your Scientific mind. We also have cheap Stam boosters :)
I enjoy HQ raiding but you always end up getting the few who don't want to drop a belt or, say we haven't got enough PPU's etc.
when DoY comes out i so hope that the Clan Wars option is implemented to avoid any SL issues. Maybe even a Faction war option to attack other factions.
I was there yesterday.
Actually it's a lot of fun if they bring an army to attack your base, and it gets announced ahead. So you can get your forces called in and try to defend it.
It was good sportsmanship on both sides lloking for a fun time in the game.
Even when I got killed, gred to mb, no armour a lot of SI and i run into Eled's Melee PPU :-) Man, i made it to my appy just in time.
FA's opinion on HQ raids dont matter. You have way over powered guards on zone lines and guarding your GR's
Guarding the GR's yes. However there are only Turrets on the zone line between TH1 + TH2 (which they should remove or tone down). As for turrets at the GR's, one of the GR entry points has no turrets just outside the GR and is a totally safe zone to against turrets. Failing that, jump to the dungeons.
If your a stealther it gets a lot easier unless they have a PPU running TSS or [TGR]Killer is there. o_O
You need to ask yourselves why you find raids to be so much fun. The answer? Balance, and risk. Certain arenas such as MB are balanced because the usually weaker defending force is bolstered by guards, meaning that an even fight ensues. It was always the way at Op wars too, the most memorable fights were the even ones, whether 3v3 or 40v40. As well as this, getting away from safezones, and also the chance of dropping belts, adds to a sense of risk, not to mention the prize the victors get in belts.
Put all these elements together and you have a blueprint for the elements that need to be accentuated in any future changes.
HOWEVER, this is a blueprint based on a skeleton community that is down to its base element, and does not represent the needs of the whole community that existed when Neocron had good populations. Don't forget that, and try to realise that in order to tempt more players into the game, KK must not only cater to those of us that crave this kind of risky combat.
FA's opinion on HQ raids dont matter. You have way over powered guards on zone lines and guarding your GR's. Your HQ is not really raidable like MB or TG is. I just dont want to hear this kind of thing from a FA carebear who cries that they need more guards not less.
Slaughter
OMG LIEK I R CAREBARE!!!!111one.
Get a clue instead of resorting to the ever-lame "carebear" response. Besides, if you want to talk about carebear, I need look no further than the many TT that "raided" FA by killing newbies and then running like cowards for the GR whenever someone came to challenge them, before the turrets came along.
I'm not against FA being raidable, nor did I cry for more guards, so I don't know where you pull that from. All I said is that if there's going to be an HQ raid, the guards/turrets need to be able to protect from small-medium groups, and that it would make no sense for a faction's home to have the security measures of a run-down 7-11. If a group is going to raid, it needs to be a sizeable group, at least the size of your standard op fighting group, not just a few players who are bored and want to grief people because they've got nothing else better to do.
Back in the days of MiG on Saturn.
We lost an outpost to a TT clan. We took the OP back in a great fight with them (sorry can't remember their clan name).
Then to get our retribution, we told them we were going to raid their HQ.
We took TT HQ for 3 hours. Pro-city people were defending along with the guards and stuff vs the whole of TG. No PPUs (There was only 1 on the server at this point and he was offline). No buffs of any sort. Just pure combat and your own heals.
Absolutely quality RP and fun.
We all had a beer outside Stock X afterwards with the City lads. Took screenies of us all together and stuff. Those really were the days.
Tank-o-cron with hybrids wasn't a bad situation to play in. Faction guards were not that powerful then either admitedly, but they did respawn fast and take a lot of damage.
Yeah i remember the days in TG when there was allways a good fight at CA HQ... All that is gone now with the extremely overpowered guards, turrets and whatever...
I get the feeling that KK are covering all good PvP zones with these deadly guards, and that jusst pisses me off...
Spikadelia
10-06-04, 16:46
A very sound point you made Mr V.
Maybe the faction guards could be moved deeper into the H.Q's to give reflect greater security the further you penetrate. There could even be the option of a MC5 chip droppping from key highest ranking member of staff. So you can launch an attack right to the heart of an enemy faction with risk and reward.
Then there could be the raid on City Admin where the toughest battle is to fight to the heart of the HQ and assasinate Reeza himself.............of course once the dust clears the body is revealed as a clone. Will the Real Reeza please stand up!
ResurgencE
10-06-04, 16:58
FA's opinion on HQ raids dont matter. You have way over powered guards on zone lines and guarding your GR's. Your HQ is not really raidable like MB or TG is. I just dont want to hear this kind of thing from a FA carebear who cries that they need more guards not less.
...Said the TT with an unraidable HQ.
All HQs and Clubs will be Safezones with BDoY. You should have enough space on the streets for your combat action. But the Faction HQs will be adjusted to the new situations with a more funtional design then the current more decorative interior. More about that in the next BDoY Peek :eek: :p with some hot screenshots: :cool:
All HQs and Clubs will be Safezones with BDoY. You should have enough space on the streets for your combat action. But the Faction HQs will be adjusted to the new situations with a more funtional design then the current more decorative interior. More about that in the next BDoY Peek :eek: :p with some hot screenshots: :cool:
You do know Iorghe included some pictures with the latest NeMa right? ;)
Hmmkay, I'll tell the IGN Guys then to remove the new shots. If you don't want em :wtf: :lol:
All HQs and Clubs will be Safezones with BDoY. You should have enough space on the streets for your combat action. But the Faction HQs will be adjusted to the new situations with a more funtional design then the current more decorative interior. More about that in the next BDoY Peek :eek: :p with some hot screenshots: :cool::eek: so we ARE gonna get new peeks?
There's still plenty of time for KK to change their minds and not fuck up the game totally by going RvB. Hopefully they will and TG, FA and MB won't become another great thing we all remember in the "when it was better" threads.
As for the "super-OP" idea - that was only mentioned as a maybe at best and hopefully they left it in whichever pub they dreamt it up in.
HQ raids can be fun sometimes but I much prefer OP-fights.
Hmmkay, I'll tell the IGN Guys then to remove the new shots. If you don't want em :wtf: :lol:
:p
I guess I was asking for that. But uhhh... You need to include the screenshots for those poor people who don't currently play Neocron! Yeah.
Bollox! I missed it! AAARRGGHH!! I bet it will be dead tonight :(
YEah i remember those CA raids. As a CM used to love jumping to to help with the lads! Ah those were the days!
Not sure how it will pan out in the future, I'm willing to keep an open mind about it.
Dj
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.