View Full Version : melee tanks
what you think of em?
I think they finally got the DMG they deserve, and should be left alone.
Eledhbrant
07-06-04, 22:03
As I said inside another thread - They do more dmg than a CS tank now, overpowered.
As I said inside another thread - They do more dmg than a CS tank now, overpowered.
and what use do they have of it, if they don´t get in range..
it´s not hard to dodge a melee tank, and it certainly isn´t hard hitting him more than he hits you.
As I said inside another thread - They do more dmg than a CS tank now, overpowered.
But what is the TL of the weapon that overpowers the CS?
melee tanks are overpowerd. They take little skill to use, and I dont like that something can be effective with little effort. I raid TG, I raid mb, what comes out? A horde of melee tanks, even some melee pes. It shows that its too good if all the sheep flock to it.
Let me say again, and again, I dont care if its a game, guns were invented bcause guns>melee, all there is too if. Mlee should be a cheap alternative to ranged weapons, but should in my opinion be less powerful... if it was up to me there would be no rare melee weapons, it should be a cheap easy way to level until you can afford a gun.
naimex think about it melee tanks can run cast tl 3 heal take big chunks out of ur health and there fast.
and if u dont think there overpowered tell me why there is a big raise in melee tanks!
The high point damage of melee doesn't come at the cost of AoE. In the current from you can cap your melee rare and use a moonstriker at very good % dmg.
On the one hand this means pure HC tanks are now largely redundant, which many would consider bad. On the other hand it means that the tank class overall is now very much centre stage as the backbone of any fighting force, which is entirely as it should be.
If you look at it in broader terms than HC v Melee - ie more as the Tank class balancing against the other classes - then things look far better. At last the tank is the clear cut all round best OP war fighter.
PE's have more versatility, Spies fill important specialist roles, APUs still pack the hardest punch in the shortest time; but if your attack force doesn't have a core of hard hitting gen-tanks then you're shafted. Personally I think that's brilliant.
My main continuing gripes are, as ever, the general overpoweredness of ALL classes relative to base constitution, and of course the PPU which continues to skew balance wildly. I love the new hybrid tank possibilities though.
But what is the TL of the weapon that overpowers the CS?
Doesnt matter the TL - melee is easy to cap anyway and the slightly higher requirements dont put off those people who PvP - do heavy weaps tanks stop once they have enough STR to use CS? Plus, apart from ravager, you have to be within about 10 feet of another person to score a good hit with heavy weaps and a melee tank can close that gap in less than a second.
Plus, when you say its 'easy' to dodge melee attacks then you must have been playing some really bad people cos all you have to do with melee is get close, keep on target just like normal people have to and you will hit every time with a weapon that does more damage per hit than most people score with a CS.
naimex think about it melee tanks can run cast tl 3 heal take big chunks out of ur health and there fast.
and if u dont think there overpowered tell me why there is a big raise in melee tanks!
If someone said just after a patch :
"OMG, Spies are overpowered, doing 300 dmg to a capped tank".
people will :
1) Go try it on test server to see if its really true
2) Go try it on retail server to see if its really true
3) Don´t bother with it, and start LoMming immediately.
POS = Power Of Suggestion.
well there has been time to check if melee tanks are that powerful.
if hybrid monks come back to there old stage u will find a increase of hybrids no question
you can't deny the fact that almost every fucking tank is melee now. even melee pe's are making their entrance.
dodge melee attacks? my arse.
Only if that player is on a laptop with a touchpad.
I'm sick of the people that say you have to use range to your advantage, respec your resists, shoot the legs that will render them useless, etc. This all sounds good on paper, but in reality it simply doesn't work.
melee and heavy combat is like pistol and rifle now.
n3m i hear u also melee monks are making a come back ;)
they need a nerf.
n3m i hear u also melee monks are making a come back ;)
they need a nerf.yeah I mean I got pwned by a certain *cough* ppu ;)
lol yeh blind what sword was that you were using in PP the other day btw :P
yeah I mean I got pwned by a certain *cough* ppu ;)
he better not go by the name of evilblind tut tut
the tl 13 sword :/ melee boost 3 and like 12 base melee i saw some elephgrant and st cuthbert use it i think... i dunno i just thought it would look cool :)
sorry for copying :( il lom him to hc now
Overpowered. There a lot more easy to operate then a HC tank. Has easily capped weapons at TL 113 that does not need a single TC point.. Runspeed like fucking mungos on LSD... Instant poison damage. The list goes on.
Theres no reason to play a HC tank now, as HC and melee are VERY NOT equal to eachother.
And why does some ppl think that a melee tanks attack is easier to avoid then the other classes ? I never have any problem at all inflicting damage on the opponen on any of my melee chars. And my aim is really nothing to brag about :lol:
Thinking that they can be avoided by running away from them is true, but how will you beat a MC tank by running away from him :confused: ?
Running backwards fiering any weapon sure as hell doesn't work....
They were powerful before the patch. I could pk capped tanks when I could only just use a vein ripper. I have chosen not to play my melee tank til they get nerfed coz I don't want such a big advantage over other players.
Naimex is right, melee tanks need to get in range, and how often can you hit someone if they are running away from you unless they are running like a drom?
Doesnt matter the TL - melee is easy to cap anyway and the slightly higher requirements dont put off those people who PvP - do heavy weaps tanks stop once they have enough STR to use CS? Plus, apart from ravager, you have to be within about 10 feet of another person to score a good hit with heavy weaps and a melee tank can close that gap in less than a second.Yes, the TL does matter.
Why?
Because soon all weapons will deal damage based solely on their TL - melee is the first lineup of weapons to undergo that change. You can't sit there and whine about the fact that a dude using a TL 115 devils grace will do more damage than a dude using a TL 105 cursed soul.
Also, since a good chunk of melee rares also do a bit of poison damage, they can easily cut through alot of people. Most people hardly spec poison resist, they rely on armor items and the like - since in most cases the only time people really see poison is while hunting in caves.
Now, all you really have to do is gimp the berzerk chip and batqueen melee +'s, and its good to go. The melee as a backup combat mindset was annoying back when I was a melee advocate, and it's just as annoying now.
Naimex is right, melee tanks need to get in range, and how often can you hit someone if they are running away from you unless they are running like a drom?
sure melee tanks need to get in range...which class runs the fastest in the game? duh... try using a Rifle Pe agaisnt a melee tank, and you'll see how ridiculous your comment becomes.
Also melee is ridiculously easy to use, there is no skill to it, no reloading, nothing at all and stamina boosters work miracles..
TheGreatMilenko
08-06-04, 00:23
why are people bitching about melee tanks and CS tanks i have no problem taking DMG from them i think you people are bitching at the poisen dmg on melee :)
and if u dont think there overpowered tell me why there is a big raise in melee tanks!
thats easy to answer, its the same reason all tanks lommed, and everyone made a tank the day the dev came out, it was rediculously overpowered too....
Naimex is right, melee tanks need to get in range, and how often can you hit someone if they are running away from you unless they are running like a drom?
never played a melee tank? never been chased by one? first off the first thing most do is shock u, secondly melee tanks ARE the fastest class ingame......what you just said was pointless
As I said inside another thread - They do more dmg than a CS tank now, overpowered.
so a melle tank shouldnt hit harder than a CS? even with a DG?
they are overpowered because they are stronger than your tank?
so basically, they overtake one weapon type, but not others, as far as dmg output goes, so they are overpowered?
They maybe overpowered in a 1on1 Fight even if a got HC Tank pwns me :D
But when there is a Dmgdealer with a ppu he is freezing me and iam dead :)
Hmm a giant sword through your head or a bolt of plasma? Would hurt just as much I would assume. I`d like KK to start using other means than damage output to balance classes. Like runspeed or other bonuses or drawbacks.
Lets say melee tanks speed got powered by their PA`s, but that power needed to recharge. So as a melee tank you could choose to sneak up on your target and then start his PA and go berzerk speedy Gonzales style for a duration or activate sooner and run like the wind towards his target, but be slower when he reached the target.
Not a very thought through example, but I`m sure runspeed changes would do NC alot of good.
As I said inside another thread - They do more dmg than a CS tank now, overpowered.
normally I'd agree with you eled, but as I've noticed when pvping with my melee tank due to usual server lag, sometimes hits don't really hit, with the upping of dmg I think it balances it out, though a slight (not the usual it's way too powerful so let's make it useless nerfage bat swing) downtoning on the current dmg wouldn't be so bad for melee tanks.
i think melee dmg is just fine, what makes them hard to kill is their speed they not slowed dow by their weapon and if they run out of stamina just pop boster, now i think that stamina boosters need some nerfin, make em like psi atleast and nerf tank stamina so if ya want to run around for long time you'll have to spec some in stamina like 100 or more. So when mele attacks u he'll either be weak but fast and lotsa stamina or he'll run out of breath in second but have diesent resists.....
@ 40$Poser - btw did u ever finished that monkeh walpaper just corious..
i think melee dmg is just fine, what makes them hard to kill is their speed they not slowed dow by their weapon and if they run out of stamina just pop boster, now i think that stamina boosters need some nerfin, make em like psi atleast and nerf tank stamina so if ya want to run around for long time you'll have to spec some in stamina like 100 or more. So when mele attacks u he'll either be weak but fast and lotsa stamina or he'll run out of breath in second but have diesent resists.....
@ 40$Poser - btw did u ever finished that monkeh walpaper just corious..
@plague: I took a little break, I actually was looking into fixing the monk today. I noticed that there's a graphical error on at least apu monk pa 3 (the center line when looking straight at the frontside of the monk) is to the left too much. Once I get a decent screen of an apu monk with HL out that is standing straight up (for some reason I always get screens with the monks head tilted badly.) I'll have the hybrid wallpaper up for download.
I got a melee tank, he got alot of speed and there are still classes like ppu's and apu's that I cannot hit because they are equally fast as me, same with other tanks. There are spies, yes, they either stealth or they are equally fast. The PE, I never meet them so I cant add my opinion on that one...
Its funny seeing more and more tanks going melee now. Everyday i see more.
Its funny seeing more and more tanks going melee now. Everyday i see more.
funny but sad, too bad ppl don't want to get skillzzz just pick overpowered class, and there olways be class that gonna be stronger then enother.....
Clownst0pper
08-06-04, 02:26
funny but sad, too bad ppl don't want to get skillzzz just pick overpowered class, and there olways be class that gonna be stronger then enother.....
U can tell a good melee tank
U can tell a bad melee tank
Either way, the bad ones are going to get it nerfed just because of the sheer quantity.
But saying that, is any player who is good with a class, not asking for it nerfing?
nerf the damm things hell u nerf my CS i want em nerffffffffeddddddd
Theres Lots of melee tanks around coz their fun dammit.
Ive always had a melee tank but he took a back seat coz melee weapons badly needed a rethink, now we have it & people are out there having fun.
Reminds us of the old rat leveling days when we were in awe of the fantastic world of Neocron, thats before we started reading the forum & became bitter & twisted.
Its unfortunate that melee has been revised first, coz now they will nerf it, then revise all the other weapon classes & once again melee will not be a viable option.
Please think of the big picture people, wait for the next for patches, wait for DoY, you keep crying the game is broke, when you dont even have the whole game yet. AFAIK we are still in Beta & im loving everyday of it. This game cost me less than USD $10- per month & it keeps me entertained for about 60 hours a month. $10- at the movies will probably get you a crap comedy with no laughs & some stale popcorn, so please look at the big picture & appreciate the ride you are getting for a bargin.
Enjoy
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 07:12
so a melle tank shouldnt hit harder than a CS? even with a DG? they are overpowered because they are stronger than your tank?
so basically, they overtake one weapon type, but not others, as far as dmg output goes, so they are overpowered?
Frankly, i think i can offer an unbiased comment since i have 3 tanks. Ever since this patch has been implemented, i find that my melee tank is doing better than my HC tank despite the fact that the HC is capped, and the MC still requires 10 str and 15 con levels.
From my perspective. ive noticed that KK often balance things by giving them both pros and cons. For example, the apu has unbelievable damage output, and unbelievably terrible defense. An HC tank has very good dmg output and defense, but has a reticle to deal with, and slows down with weapon drawn. The ppu has the best defenses, but virtually no offense. The list goes on.
The problem i see with the melee tank is that his defense is equal to the HC tank, but with the latest patch, his offense is better in many ways as well. The melee tank has no reticle, he can outrun any HC tank and close the gap in seconds, and his damage output has been increased considerably. So in order to compensate for this, we need a few negatives as well. People have tried pointing some out in an effort to keep the melee tank as it is, but those responses arent very concrete. For example, claiming that range on melee as being a factor is ludicrous, because of the runspeed mc tanks have with weapon drawn. Not only do melee tanks hit very quickly, the also run very quickly.
So to reiterate, the pros of being a melee tank:
Good offense
Good defense
Good runspeed
Run-cast heal
No reticle
No reload
So the melee tank is like the apu, except faster and with better defenses and a heal at the cost of slightly less dmg output. Couple all that with the speed at which they swing without having to really aim and the shockers they get, and i'd say thats a winner.
They maybe overpowered in a 1on1 Fight even if a got HC Tank pwns me But when there is a Dmgdealer with a ppu he is freezing me and iam dead
Heh...If you fight alone against a dmg-dealer/ppu combo, chances are pretty good you'll get your arse handed to you. Unless of course, you yourself are a good ppu, or are quick on the zoning. :D
Either way, the bad ones are going to get it nerfed just because of the sheer quantity.
If the majority of the melee tanks sucked, we wouldnt be on here discussing it as a problem. The dilemma we're facing is that even people who normally suck can play this class with relative ease. So the people who're good far surpass the other classes.
Regardless, i dont have a problem either way. Keep melee the way it is, and ill log my melee tank. Nerf it, and ill log my HC tank.
And for all those out there who are disgusted with all the HC tanks jumping on the bandwagon and lomming to MC, dont worry. They'll serve as the underlying reason for KK noticing that melee requires balancing. If more and more tanks lom to MC, it'll be quite apparent to the devs that something is wrong. It was the same case with Diablo 2. Whenever the majority of the people played a single class, the devs would immediately look into it to find out why.
tomparadox
08-06-04, 07:27
holy shit im sick of seeing these threds,
[ot] can KK make an official spam folder for stupid shit like this? kthx...
naimex think about it melee tanks can run cast tl 3 heal take big chunks out of ur health and there fast.
and if u dont think there overpowered tell me why there is a big raise in melee tanks!
woopty they can runcast a tl 3 heal big damn deel, so can a PE my spy can, hell iv made an HC tank that can... They dont do that much dmg, they constantly use STA, maby more than HC tanks do, you can get away from them if you try and not jest sit there looking stupid...There ranks suck ass still, highest ranking melee tank iv seen was rank 61/## *. they dont do that much dmg O_o...
what i have posted may sound like a stupid argument but i cant think str8 tonight... but i do know that they arnt overpowerd, i tested melee tanks on TSvs my PE, i gave one of my m8s the best setup i could come up with on the skill manager, all his resists were 75% or so, with 450+ something health fully buffed, same with my PE, my PE won almost every fight ( dont bitch to me about the anti setup rule but its the only effective way to test if there overpowered or not on TS...), but please, explain how i can kill a melee tank with a very good con setup about 9/10 times...
For example, the apu has unbelievable damage output, and unbelievably terrible defense.
same with melee, they dont have a huge rang so you can outrun them, so in return they half to do more dmg, they also use a shitload of STA and STA bosters now...
IMO melee PA dosent have -ath is because then the melee tank might not be able to catch the enamy runing away.
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 07:41
woopty they can runcast a tl 3 heal big damn deel, so can a PE my spy can, hell iv made an HC tank that can...
When you take into account that they run fast as fook, do damn good damage, can take alot of damage, dont really need to aim, dont reload and can SHOCK you, i'd say yes, thats a VERY big deal.
highest ranking melee tank iv seen was rank 61/## *. they dont do that much dmg
Lemme get this straight. You're basing your ideas of who does the most damage on COMBAT rank?
i gave one of my m8s the best setup i could come up with on the skill manager, all his resists were 75% or so, with 450+ something health fully buffed, same with my PE, my PE won almost every fight
450 HP on a fully buffed tank? Its little wonder he lost.
same with melee, they dont have a huge rang so you can outrun them,
Melee tanks are the fastest in the game with weapon drawn. And they dont have to compromise their combat prowess in order to do it. And even if you somehow miraculously could outrun a melee tank while simultaneously firing back at him, what do you plan on doing about the shockers, hmm? Soon as you pop a drug, he'll notice that you're running fast again, and just re-shock you. Pop a couple more and you get drugflash.
so in return they half to do more dmg, they also use a shitload of STA and STA bosters now...
I can easily carry 3 stacks of stam boosters in my QB and still have place for plenty of antishock and anti-dmb drugs.
Sniff sniff whine whine sniff sniff bohooo all of a sudden I cant kill someone as easily as before Sniff sniff whine whine sniff sniff bohooo nörf nörf.
Yeah sure they do more dmg than before but they can be killed aswell. There was some bd melee's and a ppu in tg yesterday and they ripped my apu apart a couple of times with no buffs on at all, but so does pretty much everything if you dont see it coming. They killed a few we killed a few of them.
Havent encountered melee's on other than my ppu who just looks wierdly at the red dildo swinging and then keep on walking to the desired destination. Apu managed to kill some, managed to get killed some. But im sure if there is a good pe he could probably take a melee down aswell it just requires another type of strategy than vs hc tanks
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 07:54
Sniff sniff whine whine sniff sniff bohooo all of a sudden I cant kill someone as easily as before Sniff sniff whine whine sniff sniff bohooo nörf nörf.
Um...Im whining because i CAN kill someone more easily than before. I have a melee tank as well, remember?
Yeah sure they do more dmg than before but they can be killed aswell.
No one's denying that they can be killed. Tanks with devourers could be killed as well. Did they not nerf the weapon nevertheless?
Havent encountered melee's on other than my ppu who just looks wierdly at the red dildo swinging and then keep on walking to the desired destination.
You just described every ppu worth his salt on any server. Most ppus can laugh off the damage from any single attacker. Many can take on several attackers at the same time and still manage to rezz fallen comrades. So if you havent seen melee tanks on any other character besides your ppu, i think it would be fallacious for you to pass judgement.
But im sure if there is a good pe he could probably take a melee down aswell it just requires another type of strategy than vs hc tanks
Enlighten us.
No one's denying that they can be killed. Tanks with devourers could be killed as well. Did they not nerf the weapon nevertheless?
Yes.. they nerfed Devourer anyways, and now it´s useless..
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 07:59
Yes.. they nerfed Devourer anyways, and now it´s useless..
Agreed. It still has a couple of uses, like adding stacks to a ppu while an apu HAB's, but that hardly compensates for the loss in damage.
They nerfed it a bit too much. I dont want the same to happen to melee. But you cannot possibly claim that the dev was fine the way it was.
what you think of em?
balanced... finally!
tomparadox
08-06-04, 08:05
Sniff sniff whine whine sniff sniff bohooo all of a sudden I cant kill someone as easily as before Sniff sniff whine whine sniff sniff bohooo nörf nörf.
i agree quit bitching about stuff and get some damn skillz, adapt to them, make stratagys to kill them, i have, what the hell is the fun in the game if you dont half to make a stratage? would everyone rather this game jest run up and hit them a couple times depending on there class, then there dead?
SHOCK you
WTF??!?!?!? thats the bigest bunch of shit iv herd in your hole post, THERE SHOCK SUCKS ASS...
Lemme get this straight. You're basing your ideas of who does the most damage on COMBAT rank?
when the hell did i say that? i said
There ranks suck ass still, highest ranking melee tank iv seen was rank 61/## *
please direct me to were in the hell i said i based dmg on combat rank? O_o i simply said there ranks suck.
Melee tanks are the fastest in the game with weapon drawn. And they dont have to compromise their combat prowess in order to do it. And even if you somehow miraculously could outrun a melee tank while simultaneously firing back at him, what do you plan on doing about the shockers, hmm? Soon as you pop a drug, he'll notice that you're running fast again, and just re-shock you. Pop a couple more and you get drugflash.
O_o as iv said, there shock sucks ass, it barly slows you down unless your already slow as hell, and i have yet to see many melee tanks actuly use it because it sucks ass and its a wast ov money, QB space, and time to get and use one...
I can easily carry 3 stacks of stam boosters in my QB and still have place for plenty of antishock and anti-dmb drugs.
erm? so? so can i, so can my HC tank. im not pointing out how many sta bosters you can carrey im pointing out they use more STA O_o...
450 HP on a fully buffed tank? Its little wonder he lost.
please read
with 450+ something
yea was fully buffed but i have 450 + its been a couple weeks and iv forgoten what it is, i know its between 450 - 530 or so, no im not bullshitng you because i dident say it the first time, i have goten vary little sleep in the last 2 days and i dont remember shit as good when im tired...
Havent encountered melee's on other than my ppu who just looks wierdly at the red dildo swinging and then keep on walking to the desired destination. Apu managed to kill some, managed to get killed some. But im sure if there is a good pe he could probably take a melee down aswell it just requires another type of strategy than vs hc tanks
yep, my PE can kill an HC tank without a probly, its all in the strategy IMO. i observ how the enamy fights, so i can adapt to how they fight, and come up with my own strategy, and this method to me is vary effective.
Yes.. they nerfed Devourer anyways, and now it´s useless..
yep, thats one of the reasons im scared for melee tanks if they deside to fuck with them , theyll completly screw them up, and make them useless again...
But you cannot possibly claim that the dev was fine the way it was.
yea i agree, in a maner of speeking, it was a tanks ansor to the HL, jest you half to aim and you couldent shoot around/over hills and buildings...
server lag = melee users worst enemy
if you've used a melee tank/pe you'll understand what I'm saying. And it's not as if Melee tanks are godlike, they can die. They have limited range.
tomparadox
08-06-04, 08:22
server lag = melee users worst enemy
if you've used a melee tank/pe you'll understand what I'm saying. And it's not as if Melee tanks are godlike, they can die. They have limited range.
yep.lag is a pain to fight in if your melee
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 08:24
WTF??!?!?!? thats the bigest bunch of shit iv herd in your hole post, THERE SHOCK SUCKS ASS...
No, the highest level TL shocker slows you down considerably. And kindly do not term what i say as a bunch of shit. Your 'dream' tank setup sounds pretty shite to me, as does your balderdash about outrunning melee tanks, but you dont see me cursing at you.
Of course, now thats inclined to change.
please direct me to were in the hell i said i based dmg on combat rank? i simply said there ranks suck.
You said the following: "highest ranking melee tank iv seen was rank 61/## *. they dont do that much dmg".
Now either English is a 4th language for you, or you're lying. If its the former, i suggest you strive for fluency in the language before striving to convince us of a matter discussed in English.
as iv said, there shock sucks ass, it barly slows you down unless your already slow as hell,
Ah, y'mean like HC tanks, for example?
and i have yet to see many melee tanks actuly use it because it sucks ass and its a wast ov money, QB space, and time to get and use one...
I have fought several melee tanks and all of them have used it. I too, have used it on others when im on my melee tank, and i find it very effective. Perhaps since you stand there with your uber ppu, no one tries to shock you because they're all targetting the combatants. Even when im on my ppu and surrounded by melee tanks shocking me, i have spells to counter it.
erm? so? so can i, so can my HC tank. im not pointing out how many sta bosters you can carrey im pointing out they use more STA
So? Even my HC tank can. The point was not to show off about how nice and big my QB is. It was to show that it does not MATTER if melee tanks run out of stamina a tad faster, because they can carry alot of stams.
yea was fully buffed but i have 450 + its been a couple weeks and iv forgoten what it is, i know its between 450 - 530 or so, no im not bullshitng you because i dident say it the first time, i have goten vary little sleep in the last 2 days and i dont remember shit as good when im tired...
You yourself admit that when you're tired, you're liable to say things which make little to no sense. Then why do you bother posting? And no self-respecting capped tank would lay claim to sporting 450 HP, even if its 450+. My PE has roughly that much HP with very good resists, and he caps con at 65 and cannot even utilise a marine or herc for the added HP.
The point is that you made this tank on the test server and had access to virtually every type of implant, and yet you could only manage 450+? Its not my reading abilities which are to blame, here. Its your poor communication skills. 450+ is very misleading. Be more specific next time.
And which server is it that you play on, that you havent noticed melee tanks shocking others? If its Pluto, then that could be due to the current population. If its on Saturn, then you're nose is going to grow a tad longer, pinocchio.
Nah mr ResurgencE, the post isnt aimed at you, secondly if you really read what I wrote it should be pretty obvious that I also have encountered melee's with my APU, and I promise thats as bad as it can get. But apu without backup is supposed to be weak hence Im not here whineing my fucking head off. Im just tired of ppl who just cant deal with something that requires them to use their brain for something than sitdown and shoot and not actually take the time to figure.
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 08:28
Didnt see the edit in your post.
yep, thats one of the reasons im scared for melee tanks if they deside to fuck with them , theyll completly screw them up, and make them useless again...
Which is what i dont wish for. Even melee tank dmg is fine, so long as they have a malus other than 'server lag', which might be fixed with BDoY.
yea i agree, in a maner of speeking, it was a tanks ansor to the HL, jest you half to aim and you couldent shoot around/over hills and buildings...
Agreed again.
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 08:32
Nah mr ResurgencE, the post isnt aimed at you, secondly if you really read what I wrote it should be pretty obvious that I also have encountered melee's with my APU, and I promise thats as bad as it can get. But apu without backup is supposed to be weak hence Im not here whineing my fucking head off. Im just tired of ppl who just cant deal with something that requires them to use their brain for something than sitdown and shoot and not actually take the time to figure.
Once again, i wholeheartedly agree. Some aspects of the game just require some strategy, and yet people yodel for nerfs because they cant take the heat.
But im stating all these points not as a victim of melee-users, but as a melee-user myself. Nevertheless, if you can come up with a good strategy to counter the melee (without a ppu, mind you, since the ppu seems to be the answer to everything nowadays), then that'd be lovely. As i said, i stand nothing to lose if they keep it as it is.
One of the biggest enemies of melee and pvp in general is the close quarter combat, the player prediction and the warping through walls is terrible some times.. I got ganked on the apu twice from not beeing able to see the tank run twoards me, one second noone there the next plopp through the wall and start chopping :).
But it seemes everyone dont like melee, they will turn in to the next hate object after monks, so because of that maby they should just lower the dmg output back to pre this patch (felt it was fine as it was then), but that would mean removing insta poison, cause thats what's causing more dmg now than before.
edit.. hmm maby I should say close quarters combat as in fighting in a tight space. tg apps entrances and shit, neofrag at some locations and so on.. pp1.
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 08:41
One of the biggest enemies of melee and pvp in general is the close quarter combat, the player prediction and the warping through walls is terrible some times.. I got ganked on the apu twice from not beeing able to see the tank run twoards me, one second noone there the next plopp through the wall and start chopping
Heh, i have the exact same problems, except on all my characters. It pisses me off even more when im on my HC tank and i finally get a lock on the target only to find him disappear into the friggin wall. The player prediction is a pain in the arse as well. The only bright side is that i have something to blame my shitty skills on. :D
But it seemes everyone dont like melee, they will turn in to the next hate object after monks, so because of that maby they should just lower the dmg output back to pre this patch (felt it was fine as it was then), but that would mean removing insta poison, cause thats what's causing more dmg now than before.
I certainly hope not. I want melee tanks to be more viable than mere wb-hunting alts. But a simple malus wouldnt be too bad. Perhaps an added malus on their PA which causes them some discomfort. Not -atl, like the HC PA, but the - HC on melee PA just doesnt hurt anyone aside from hybrid tanks.
And my GOD, have you SEEN the bonuses to melee we get from our imps? My melee tank is at 90 base str, yet he completely caps DG and resist force (more like caps them twice over), and yet hes got more than 50 points unallocated. :/
Melee tanks are the fastest in the game with weapon drawn. And they dont have to compromise their combat prowess in order to do it.
Thats going a bit far... my melee tank can really only get 99-100 agility, which is far not enough, if he wants to use a DG... right now atleast, i dont have MC5's.
Both my pistol PE and Melee PE run just as fast, if not faster than my melee tank.
I've found an easy way to kill a melee tank:
Sit in a reveler and blast away.
As for the rest, they're just too fast.
Keeping distance? Running from them?
Then how are you gonna kill them, they're faster than a hc tank, and when you're running from them, you can't exactly shoot them can you? (unless you got a gun sticking out of your ass)
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 08:51
Thats going a bit far... my melee tank can really only get 99-100 agility, which is far not enough, if he wants to use a DG... right now atleast, i dont have MC5's.
I understand, of course. But many MC tanks do have hercs implanted, and mine does as well. I get roughly 120 agl and i use DG. When i used to have a adv. movement 3 implanted instead of a herc, i had roughly 90 atl. Couple that with the speed i can hack at, and i'd say you dont really require even a herc to move quickly.
Both my pistol PE and Melee PE run just as fast, if not faster than my melee tank.
Melee PEs are again....melee. :)
As for the pistol PE, once again, the other disadvantages come into play. Reload, aiming, etc.
Then how are you gonna kill them, they're faster than a hc tank, and when you're running from them, you can't exactly shoot them can you? (unless you got a gun sticking out of your ass)
ROFL :lol:
Nevertheless, if you can come up with a good strategy to counter the melee (without a ppu, mind you, since the ppu seems to be the answer to everything nowadays), then that'd be lovely. As i said, i stand nothing to lose if they keep it as it is.
Best method to kill a meele is a good and fast "stealthable" spy i would say...
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 09:52
Best method to kill a meele is a good and fast "stealthable" spy i would say...
Hmm...A stealthing spy would prolly have more of an advantage over an apu out in the wastes with no way to heal or zone, or even an HC tank whos slowed down with his cannon and has a slow heal.
With an MC tank, as soon as the fight begins and the spy has lost a considerable amount of HP (if the spy drugs for shelter, thats an additional - 15 force right there), he can stealth away to heal. However, in the meantime, the tank can do the same, while simultaneously chomping on a medikit because he has so much left over str points for transport, he could carry enough first aid kits to keep a hospital well-supplied for a month. The Tl 3 heal + the medikit will have him back at full HP in no time, and he has considerably less to heal, since the spy would prolly take quite a bit of dmg at a faster rate (seeing as he has less hp to begin with and would need to heal earlier than the tank. The tank moving quite fast doesnt help things either).
Im assuming what you meant in this scenario was akin to what was happening with PEs stealthing away to heal mid-fight pre-patch. The MC tank in this case has the same option, unfortunately. While the spy is stealthed, he cannot shoot the tank either, so the tank can heal as well.
Richard Slade
08-06-04, 10:01
Might I point out one thing for you:
Asia.
Take a Katana for good example.
This is by far the most deadly weapon existing
Not that their flails are nice stuff either.
Melee IS a pain to meet,
melee persons are made to be
1)Quick 2)Deadly
Take a whine at the monks first for once,
and raise TL on weapons that actually do alot of dmg.
Melee weapons should have HIGH dmg output,
BUT wielding such a thing shouldn't be easy.
I mean come on, it's not a point-and-pull-the-trigger weapon here,
it's a skill-only weapon damnit
Would suppose a more lame tactic:
Start shooting from distance and stealth before he gets close...run away and eat a medkit perhaps.....repeat that a few times and i hope u skilled some hacking..... :P
Richard Slade
08-06-04, 10:05
Would suppose a more lame tactic:
Start shooting from distance and stealth before he gets close...run away and eat a medkit perhaps.....repeat that a few times and i hope u skilled some hacking..... :P
Lame and lame...
Tank HC tactics were lame:
Run up to any spy with no weapons screaming "Help!!"
then side by side pulling up the CS and showing it up the spy's ass...
APU/PPU tactics ARE lame, ain't even gonna explain that.
Running from a melee sounds quite fair when you're not :P
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 10:06
Start shooting from distance and stealth before he gets close...run away and eat a medkit perhaps.....repeat that a few times and i hope u skilled some hacking..... :P
lol...Thats pretty good.
In fact, ive seen rifle spies use that tactic against virtually every class several times in MB, so it isnt just restricted to melee tanks. :D
Richard Slade
08-06-04, 10:09
lol
I remember the times when Bitch! was camping MB with four spies...
That worked damn well...
SH with fire-mod
And four of them...
Here is another approach to this debate:
I do believe that melee certainly got a real boost after last patch, and to make a melee tank requires no skill or they are the fastest... but
Since none here ever agreed in a "specific procedure" to test weapons damage (and none will ever be...), so as we can be sure that yes this is OVERpowered, or no Its not, I say let time pass and see how the ppl will react, how will the hc/mc ballance become, which will show us how much ppl is having fun with melee. Because its obvious that some ppl do have fun with melee. I believe time will show melee's weakness and issue more mature statements on balancing melee. This is the game we play, but its also KK's world and KK surelly has a strategy doing this or that. Or sees things different than how we do, as we dont know all the little details (except ofcourse, to just one :D)
ResurgencE
08-06-04, 13:20
Your approach is by far the best one so far.
Lets wait it out.
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