View Full Version : Answers Regarding Skillmanager
The Skillmanager is not to be public, and can therefore not be legally shared, or distributed.
The Skillmanager will not be continued, nor will it be completed for those that have helped with itīs making.
The formulas, will not be given out, so if you ask nicely, maybe you can get them from KK, if not, then you have to calculate them yourself.
The sourcecode, will not be given, so you have to write your own..
Just in case you wanted to know, so if you have any knowledge on how to program, or if you just want to have a skillmanager, then you have to write it yourself.
Of course this only applies to the Skillmanagers written and made by Smoker.
:confused:
Isn't it a bit late to stop it's circulation? The internet doesn't to roll-backs.
Also, do you mind if I ask why?
So what happened with that German mod?
I know that something bad happened to stop Smoker producing his skillmanager. I understand completely, as I'm sure that he has a good reason, but its a shame that the skillmanager had to end this way. :(
well, nothing happened to the mod, and nothing will happen to him.
yes you may ask why, but I think the best answer I can give you is, that he doesnīt want to slave over the work, of writing all the stuff and all that, when his work isnīt properly appreciated by the people that manage this game.
That must be the most accurate guess I can do..
Smoker doesnīt wish to talk about NC at all, so had to push the subject to get these answers..
EDIT :
All the formulas and all that, he calculated himself.. he didnīt get anything from KK.. so you can imagine it has been very time consuming for him..
I know that nothing has happened to the mod. But I'm sure that I read on your forums that the mod did something to Smoker.
Sorry, if I'm being too nosy just say and I'll stop asking. I'm merely curious as to whats going on.
the rumour is that mod asked another mod to have Smoker banned, and then it happens..
as far as I understood from official side, is that it was for all different reasons.
I wonīt specify it more, so donīt ask.
Just think, if I'd stayed in bed I would have missed this 8|
Ah, ok naimex.
Is there anyway to update the existing skillmanager (not the one that was in BETA) with the new drugs?
all skillmanagers made by Smoker, can be manually updated..
if you care to look in the folder, you will find a lot of iniīs..
in those iniīs are everything you need..
if you add stuff.. then you have to add the same value as the number of items you add to a specific group, to the overall group calculation in the top of the ini.
One question. Are the resist formulas the same in this new version as in the old version? I.e the one from 2003 October/November whatever.
no, in the newest Beta, (which very few should have, and should ever get) all formulas have been remade.. the formula for Psi, and sta was calculated for the full version, but was never implemented to the beta version.
no, in the newest Beta, (which very few should have, and should ever get) all formulas have been remade.. the formula for Psi, and sta was calculated for the full version, but was never implemented to the beta version.
Ok, thanks.
both of the latest versions are available on the Edonkey (p2p) network. Kind of tough to put that genie back in the bottle.
Shame he got banned though, some of the community's best contributors have gone out the hard way.
What I want to know is if the awesome map that is available at neocron.ems.ru will ever be updated? It was pretty well current up 'till this patch with the new tunnels and all. That map knocks the pants off the other custom map that comes with launcher pro. I have it printed at 2'x3' on my wall :p
/edit: If you're not using emule plus, you should be :p http://emuleplus.info
both of the latest versions are available on the Edonkey (p2p) network. Kind of tough to put that genie back in the bottle.
Just because itīs there, doesnīt make it right to download and use it.
(itīs a lesson you learn when you get nailed by the cops).
Bet they don't like skillmanagers giving peeps setups or sain stupid...
Or kk plan to release one themselves and sell it :(
Bet they don't like skillmanagers giving peeps setups or sain stupid...
Or kk plan to release one themselves and sell it :(
I'm sure they don't mind. I'd prefer if KK would build the functionality into the character sheet in-game so we can't be held hostage to tempermental programmers' whims.
I bet you've deleted all your copies too eh Naimex? ;)
Naimex cancelled his account so no need for it is there :p
I'm sure they don't mind. I'd prefer if KK would build the functionality into the character sheet in-game so we can't be held hostage to tempermental programmers' whims.
I bet you've deleted all your copies too eh Naimex? ;)
No, I have most of the skillmanagers, released.. and a fragment of the sourcecode..
http://www.naimex.dk/sm.jpg
but I donīt give them to people.
I honor his wish not to have it distributed.
EDIT 2 : I actually just looked.. It seems like I got all of the source code :p
EDIT 3 : Just to step in it.. the formulas donīt look easy..
No, I have most of the skillmanagers, released.. and a fragment of the sourcecode..
but I donīt give them to people.
I honor his wish not to have it distributed.
EDIT 2 : I actually just looked.. It seems like I got all of the source code :p
EDIT 3 : Just to step in it.. the formulas donīt look easy..
t'would be nice if he'd release the source and the final rev, that's the blue one right?
Sorry to hear you cancelled, I'll probably be doing so to before my next payment in July.
/edit WHAT AM I SAYING I CAN'T QUIT I LOVE TEH NEOCRACK!1!!!11ONEOENONE
t'would be nice if he'd release the source and the final rev, that's the blue one right?
Sorry to hear you cancelled, I'll probably be doing so to before my next payment in July.
/edit WHAT AM I SAYING I CAN'T QUIT I LOVE TEH NEOCRACK!1!!!11ONEOENONE
the latest version is beta 3, it has a gradient blue background.. and uses images for the skill names. (actually the skill names are the background).
Itīs what happens.. I miss it, and I donīt... you know ?
EDIT : Just looked... beta 2 and beta 3, use the same background images.. the differences are : layout, formulas, dynamic itemlist, drugs.
but even the beta 3, doesnīt have the updated drugs.. but you can always add them yourself..
Well you could if you had it..
KK should get off his fat ass and give us some skill managers and some good servers i mean for crying out loud there getting enough money from us all :mad:
Y'know, unless there are other factors here that I'm not aware of, all I'm seeing is "wah, wah, wah, I'm not getting enough recognition for something I've done so if nobody gets to use my work".
I've put a fuckton of time into http://nc.synergyxr.net/, as has Myrlin, Alamais, and a ton of other people. Mails, PMs, posts come in with the info and we go to work updating a lot of stuff. People have submitted works on the site which have been useful to the entire community.
If you do something like a fansite or a skill manager or wallpaper or any game-related idea that is accessable via the Internet without securing or protecting it, what do you think is going to happen? The point is however, people putting the time into these things should be doing it for the love of the game and the community, not so you can pet your ego when it's all said and done.
If Smoker has some hate-war with the mods or whatnot, that's unfortunate and we, as a community, can only hope that a former-contributer to the community works out some differences... but like I said, the bottom-line is you do things of this nature for the community and the game and you look like a dick when you go all "These are MY toys and I'M playing with them."
Youīre not the only one who has done something for the community...
I spent 3 weeks on an itemlist.. itīs still going up... even though Iīm not playing. (thatīs 3 weeks with little less than anything, but writing info directly from game, into a database.)
But let me try and put it in another way, so perhaps you can see it from his point of view..
He makes skillmanager, finds hardcode bugs, reports exploit.
And he gets kicked out of the game.
The way I see it, it is just as if you build a house, and then youīre told you canīt enter the city.
What would you do ?
Leave the house.. and say.. that was a waste of time, and money.
or
you gonna say, fuck this shit, I want my money back then..
(This is just an example)
If we adapt that, then it would fit onto, him making the skillmanager, and then heīs told heīs not allowed to play the game.. which makes the skillmanager and all the time he invested in it, useless to him..
He could leave it and say this was a bloody waste of time and effort.
or he could say fuck this shit, when you take the game away from me, I take my program away from you..
itīs a reaction.. I can see it from his point of view.. I can even see it from your point of view.. but it doesnīt change the fact... it is his program, and if he wishes it to stop spreading.. then I have enough respect for his work, to stop spreading it..
tomparadox
08-06-04, 07:39
Youīre not the only one who has done something for the community...
I spent 3 weeks on an itemlist.. itīs still going up... even though Iīm not playing. (thatīs 3 weeks with little less than anything, but writing info directly from game, into a database.)
But let me try and put it in another way, so perhaps you can see it from his point of view..
He makes skillmanager, finds hardcode bugs, reports exploit.
And he gets kicked out of the game.
The way I see it, it is just as if you build a house, and then youīre told you canīt enter the city.
What would you do ?
Leave the house.. and say.. that was a waste of time, and money.
or
you gonna say, fuck this shit, I want my money back then..
(This is just an example)
If we adapt that, then it would fit onto, him making the skillmanager, and then heīs told heīs not allowed to play the game.. which makes the skillmanager and all the time he invested in it, useless to him..
He could leave it and say this was a bloody waste of time and effort.
or he could say fuck this shit, when you take the game away from me, I take my program away from you..
itīs a reaction.. I can see it from his point of view.. I can even see it from your point of view.. but it doesnīt change the fact... it is his program, and if he wishes it to stop spreading.. then I have enough respect for his work, to stop spreading it..
so, IE if someoen sticks this on kazaa they can get arested for it? thats a bunch of bull IMO.
oh and about the source code, you meen the only way to get it is make your own? or you could jest decompile the things .exe wouldent that do it?
KK should get off his fat ass and give us some skill managers and some good servers i mean for crying out loud there getting enough money from us all
O_o erm no they arnt... Lets say the most they have paying 10$/m right now is 5000 people, wich i dought very much, but still, thats 5000*10 isent that 50k a month? - band width - how much they half to pay for the building they use - how much they pay for that building the devs stay in - electrisity - paying the devs and all thats probly per month, and thats with 5000 people theyd make about 50k a month, and right now i dont even thing they have over 1500...
about the skill manager... why should they? they have enuf shit there working on, there still probly working on DoY, there still working on the termi runs, other shit like hybrids ppus and crap, they dont have time to fuck around with skill managers, and other shit, the servers are fine O_o uranus hasent crashed for a while that iv notices, and i think theyll get new servers at DoY, or atlest upgrade the ones they have... and KK dosent have some big ass dev team like SWG and other MMOs made by big companys like sony and shit probly have...
so, IE if someoen sticks this on kazaa they can get arested for it? thats a bunch of bull IMO.
oh and about the source code, you meen the only way to get it is make your own? or you could jest decompile the things .exe wouldent that do it?
I didnīt say anything about getting arrested, I said they shouldnīt download it.
He made it, and people have used it ALOT.. so I donīt see why people donīt have the respect to stop giving it to other people...
You could decompile it.. but wouldnīt that be breaking copyright ^^
KK should get off his fat ass and give us some skill managers and some good servers i mean for crying out loud there getting enough money from us all :mad:
Skill managers = even less variation in chars
Less variation = less to do
Less to do = people leave sooner
So why would KK provide us with a skill-manager?
Good points jernau.
Let me add something else as well.
KK really need to close test server. Only pick a team of selected few, that will test things up and report bugs as TS directions suggest.
Instead of that whats happening now is, the mom something new is being introduced, ppl run in the TS exploiting and spoilling or spreading spoillers ingame. I play nc for more than 2 yrs. I went to TS 5-6 months ago for a couple of hours. Never been there again. PPL lose interest very quickly just because they discover exploits or hidden secrets v fast.
Good points jernau.
Let me add something else as well.
KK really need to close test server. Only pick a team of selected few, that will test things up and report bugs as TS directions suggest.
Instead of that whats happening now is, the mom something new is being introduced, ppl run in the TS exploiting and spoilling or spreading spoillers ingame. I play nc for more than 2 yrs. I went to TS 5-6 months ago for a couple of hours. Never been there again. PPL lose interest very quickly just because they discover exploits or hidden secrets v fast.
Agree 100%.
I've been calling for an invite-only NDA-limited TS since it was brought in.
Skill managers = even less variation in chars
I thought specialisation did that to near top degree already
He makes skillmanager, finds hardcode bugs, reports exploit.
And he gets kicked out of the game.
I'm curious... were those 2 facts in anyway related?
Was he kicked for
a) Making skill manager by hard work and guessing (would be nuts, don't believe it)
b) Making skill manager by reverse engineering the game files for the algorithms (very sensible imho)
c) Making skill manager, finding exploits in the alogrithms and abusing them
d) Making the skill manager and being accused of either b or c by a mod
e) Something completely different.
I thought specialisation did that to near top degree already
Different effects - skill managers have more effect on resists than skills.
Specialisation is unquestionably the greatest evil.
Different effects - skill managers have more effect on resists than skills.
Specialisation is unquestionably the greatest evil.
I think even the Devil start laying bricks when he hears the uttering of Specialisation....
Yeah they have the setups.... but good thing is most don't have the skill to use the setup effectively :D
Ahh wel back to hoping again to see a libby tank come tear arsing through my leveling team, seeing a pe switch between a libby to a painy back to a libby, crying as a uber hyb showed up and layed the smackdown, watching spies who hit you with the fl one min then a pull a plasma cannon next bah was so good having so many options with your char :(
I'm curious... were those 2 facts in anyway related?
Was he kicked for
a) Making skill manager by hard work and guessing (would be nuts, don't believe it)
b) Making skill manager by reverse engineering the game files for the algorithms (very sensible imho)
c) Making skill manager, finding exploits in the alogrithms and abusing them
d) Making the skill manager and being accused of either b or c by a mod
e) Something completely different.
I stated in beginning of thread, I didnīt want to specify it further.. but there are different opinions, regarding the events that lead to it, depending on who you ask..
bottom line, your guess is as good as mine.
bottom line, your guess is as good as mine.
Fantastic, wonder if we can get the MJS / Smoker / Love Child angle on this.
I'll call the News of the World now.
tomparadox
09-06-04, 00:57
I didnīt say anything about getting arrested, I said they shouldnīt download it.
He made it, and people have used it ALOT.. so I donīt see why people donīt have the respect to stop giving it to other people...
You could decompile it.. but wouldnīt that be breaking copyright ^^
oh so he copy righted it now? wtf, i respect the time he put into it and stuff but thats kinda stupid if you can get introble for decompileing it...
yes true a lot of people use it, i will respect what hes asking, i jest think its kinda dumb...
oh so he copy righted it now?
Copyright it implicit not explicit. He doesn't need to do anything.
As for his requests I don't mind as I never distributed it anyway but I really don't think that most people will care so it just makes him look silly IMO.
tomparadox
09-06-04, 01:22
Copyright it implicit not explicit. He doesn't need to do anything.
As for his requests I don't mind as I never distributed it anyway but I really don't think that most people will care so it just makes him look silly IMO.
i agreem in a way thats what im trying to say, jest couldent think of how to put it o_O, i dont have a problem with it, jest IMO yea it makes him look a bit silly copyrighting something as small as a skillmanager... i meen go look at people that make TOTLE CONVERSIONS for games like morrowind, adding 100 + NPCs, MOBs Weapons all made from scratch, they dont copyright it, they do it because they like to make mods, not so they can have there name writen all over it saying " HEY look iv done im so gr8" or something like that. ( no im not saying the dude that made the skill manager is saying that )
Copyright it implicit not explicit. He doesn't need to do anything.
wow, what dose that meen lol? Ir slow...
Smoker eh?
Lets see gets banned for posting exploits on the forums...evades the ban a couple times. Gets a 2nd chance and gets a 3 day for a homophobic signature. Got another ban for digging around in files he wasn't supposed to be and using an incredibly over the top sickening signature that I'll spare you the details of. Again makes other accounts to avoid bans. Decides to respond to mods on warnings with "you stink". 3 mods chose for a full on permanent ban. Quite frankly he had his chances and blew them. Had nothing to do with whatever project he was working but his behaviour on the forums.
wow, what dose that meen lol? Ir slow...
It means that it's implied and you don't have to state it explicitly.
Any original work can be said to be copyrighted simply by being original. You don't need to fill out any forms or tell anyone you just mark it in some way as yours and unless someone proves they beat you to it then it's your copyright.
Patents and trademarks have to be applied for and granted via a horribly archaic system.
Software patents and copyrights are unspeakably complicated as neither system really fits very well but that's another story.......
tomparadox
09-06-04, 01:40
It means that it's implied and you don't have to state it explicitly.
Any original work can be said to be copyrighted simply by being original. You don't need to fill out any forms or tell anyone you just mark it in some way as yours and unless someone proves they beat you to it then it's your copyright.
Patents and trademarks have to be applied for and granted via a horribly archaic system.
Software patents and copyrights are unspeakably complicated as neither system really fits very well but that's another story.......
ah ok thx.
Mumblyfish
09-06-04, 01:46
Had nothing to do with whatever project he was working but his behaviour on the forums.
And Odin doesn't lie. He's one of the nice guys.
If that's so, then Smoker deserved his ban. Not much more to it than that.
Syntax-Error
09-06-04, 02:12
Agreed on that, tho i stuggle to see why he punishes the community for getting banned for KK, i really cant see KK giving a damn that we dont have a skillmanager hes made. after all there are a few knocking around. and also id never touch a program made my someone on a forum without full access to the source code.
You could decompile it.. but wouldnīt that be breaking copyright ^^
Not if you state in the source code comments "Taken from SkillManager Version XXX designed, coded and tested by Smoker (or his/her real name)".
And you also have to state in the GUI of the program it was taken from another source, like when you click Help => About...
As long as you state it was copyrighted by Smoker, and give details how to contact him and whatnot you are not breaking copyright, or any other laws from that matter.
However if you do not state that you took the formulae from Smoker's work when you did, and it is evident that you did, you are looking at a hefty fine for copyright fraud.
Not if you state in the source code comments "Taken from SkillManager Version XXX designed, coded and tested by Smoker (or his/her real name)".
And you also have to state in the GUI of the program it was taken from another source, like when you click Help => About...
As long as you state it was copyrighted by Smoker, and give details how to contact him and whatnot you are not breaking copyright, or any other laws from that matter.
However if you do not state that you took the formulae from Smoker's work when you did, and it is evident that you did, you are looking at a hefty fine for copyright fraud.
If you just take the formulas then you are safe as they weren't his to start with. If you use large sections (or all) of his source code you need his permission regardless of what you put in the help window.
If you just take the formulas then you are safe as they weren't his to start with. If you use large sections (or all) of his source code you need his permission regardless of what you put in the help window.
On the other hand if you take what he has done, translate it into a flow chart and recode it in another language, it is your own work. So there is no trouble with copyright or anything.
On the other hand if you take what he has done, translate it into a flow chart and recode it in another language, it is your own work. So there is no trouble with copyright or anything.
Assuming his work was 100% original (which it isn't) then as long as you don't decompile the runtimes or have access to the source then yes.
Of course his is a derivative work anyway so it's a moot point.
Assuming his work was 100% original (which it isn't) then as long as you don't decompile the runtimes or have access to the source then yes.
Of course his is a derivative work anyway so it's a moot point.
If it was me trying to replicate and improve it I would deassemble it. Would give a shite load of code to go through, but if translated correctly would leave code which is your own.
If it was me trying to replicate and improve it I would deassemble it. Would give a shite load of code to go through, but if translated correctly would leave code which is your own.In this case I'd do the same - you are only after the formulae after all.
Well actually - I'd go to the game files as he did. After all who says he got it all right? The extra level of abstraction by using Smoker's program may protect you from KK legally (double-blind reverse-engineering will stand up in court) but it wouldn't stop them banning your account if they decided you were gaining unfair advantage somehow.
Smoker eh?
Lets see gets banned for posting exploits on the forums...evades the ban a couple times. Gets a 2nd chance and gets a 3 day for a homophobic signature. Got another ban for digging around in files he wasn't supposed to be and using an incredibly over the top sickening signature that I'll spare you the details of. Again makes other accounts to avoid bans. Decides to respond to mods on warnings with "you stink". 3 mods chose for a full on permanent ban. Quite frankly he had his chances and blew them. Had nothing to do with whatever project he was working but his behaviour on the forums.
Thx Odin.. that part of the story, I hadnīt heard from either part.
It a pitty Smoker has done this, he seemed (at least to me) most off the time to be a reasonable and decent member off the comunity. He's taken a dispute with kk and punished the entire comunity for it, this is unfortunate. But as previousley stated the formulae from his work is not his, so hopefully someone in the future will be able to code a new skillmanager. The legal issues involved this however are extremley complex, being as people have access to his work and live in a multitude off countries, hence his request not to use his work may in many cases have no legal credibility at all.
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