View Full Version : Melee tanks are owning me every time :/
If you think melee is not overpowered plz explain how its not cos the way I see again its the voice of those who speak out thats ruining this game. Its the voice of the noobs that can't fight Melee did not need that boost I had problems killing them before the patch and now they really do own me in 5 hits. I can't play me lowtech PE anymore every where I go there is a melee tank cos they know its overpowered so alot of them are lomming to melee to get easy kills.
Aziraphale
03-06-04, 13:38
Go for the legs ;)
Or get yourself a well made freezer rifle and play dirty.
Not sure if the PE parashock is good enough to make any difference, but worth a try.
It don't really make a difference the tank is still gonna bust me up in little amount of effort and they have a shocker thats stonger than parra I'm really begining to get pissed off I use to like this game it use to be quite balanced. Of coarse every melee tank is gonna disagree its not them thats suffering there the ones thats laughing I feel sorry for the APU's you seen how fast they die to this thing?
This game right is turning into my equitment is better than yours I own you thats what its turning into gone are the days of skilled fighting now all you have to do is power lvl a tank and swing a stupid claw around while running around a stupid speeds GG kk
Hell,
This is true.
My HC tank has problems fighting them, not because they are fast as hell, so it's hard to aim on them, but just because they do a lot more dammage in a short time now, and don't tell me i need to spec piercing and poison, because i have.
As it is now, a lvl 35 melee tank can take out a near capped tank no problems.
And i know Lil T is not the one whining because she has no skills or whatever, that lil PE has had groups of people on the run.
As for people sayin,g get some skills.... Here's one for you:
Get a capped char from all classes together on TS, Then do a fight, switch classes around so you take away player skill, and then see who comes out on top each time.
Too bad people that do the tests on testserver don't report it, they just start loming their retial characters before the patch comes out.
If you think melee is not overpowered plz explain how its not cos the way I see again its the voice of those who speak out thats ruining this game. Its the voice of the noobs that can't fight Melee did not need that boost I had problems killing them before the patch and now they really do own me in 5 hits. I can't play me lowtech PE anymore every where I go there is a melee tank cos they know its overpowered so alot of them are lomming to melee to get easy kills.
Damn I take back everything I have said I spec posion and what do you know its not that bad so long as you have good amount of xray too. I specced 60 posion btw filter 1 + viper king and resist boost 2 25 points in con 25 x 0.9 = 22.5 + 37 = 59.5 posion and I'm able to survive melee attacks again. I feel bad for jumping to conclusions now only thing thats bad is the pe must now be lowtech to use viper king in order to compete
Make your flipping mind up please!!!
Make your flipping mind up please!!!
I know zaq I did spec posion I did test it but I got them to hit me once but this test proved nothing
Its all about damage over time and 5 hits is killing me all most my conclusion its overpowered I'm sorry to change my mind but after fighting for a few days and getting owned by noob tanks not capped ones ...
you can spec until your blue in the face melee tanks are just overpowered
no if's but's what's
theyre overpowered end of story
Original monk
03-06-04, 13:54
yawn ... i yust lommed mellee to cap the PoB, also use some HC funweapons :)
and im allready psychologically prepared to get nerfed to hell and beyond, like it was with 3 star HCtanks, regular hybrids and kamihybrids :)
also i think its stupid that the HC-PA does (a crazy amount) minus athletics and the MC-PA only does minus heavy combat :/
its obvious that hybridtanks arent appreciated :/
its also obvious that KK dislikes any form of personalising youre char ... all the same looks, all the same setups ... and you wonna be diffrent from others ??? then prepare to be GIMPED :/
2 points (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing ifd its overpowered)
1. melee damage = random = you need to test with more than one hit
2. Even noob tanks are good because it is SO easy to cap damage on melee weapons. Man even my tnak caps a DG and he is 15 STR levels away from using it
its like the devourer was damn when it first came out I had med posion belt on full inq armor did sweet f*ck all really you could not resist this shit no matter how many points you put in.
I when into the aggies and there was this noob melee tank he was doing over 100 a hit with a non rare my fire modded libby does 95 a hit it use to do 105 a hit. 0ver 100 a hit with a non rare at a good rate of fire it stupid agian its about damage over time
I have no problems at all winning over melee tanks..
neither on HC-Tank nor on Pistol-PE
2 points (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing ifd its overpowered)
1. melee damage = random = you need to test with more than one hit
2. Even noob tanks are good because it is SO easy to cap damage on melee weapons. Man even my tnak caps a DG and he is 15 STR levels away from using it
Yeah it was kind of silly to test it once I only took 14 damage that time but I'm fighting a melee tank and its like slice slice slice fook almost 250 hit points no joke :/
Freeejumper
03-06-04, 14:04
i think all weapons should do 1 damage to everyperson... every persons should have 10 hp ... a ppu should heal with every heal 5 hp (ppu god mode) ... well i m sure people will still find something to cry ... so forgot what i said
Too bad people that do the tests on testserver don't report it, they just start loming their retial characters before the patch comes out.
That is so so true
Everypatch is a good patch but theres allways allways something that gets boosted to overpoweredness is this an attempt to make one set of whiners happy? Hell if the lowtech pe's got a boost can you imagine the CRYing we would get from the people that play tanks.
My lowtech PE has all resists down to ~6% in skillmanager except poison that is at 10.5%. I know its not completely exact, but it does give a guide as to how good my resists are.
Melee tanks do massive damage to me, more than anything else in the game (including HL).
They can have good resists and massive damage, the only thing they don't have is range, but they move so bloody fast and have a rediculous shocker that it doesn't matter.
cobrajay157
03-06-04, 14:45
Why complain you just have to wait untill next patch they always so these things they overpower one class so every1 lom and reroll to it then next patch comes and POOF that class is gimped to hell and they complain :o
Ozambabbaz
03-06-04, 14:47
it's not necessarily whining, but when 20% of all forum posts are about X suff is Y, KK usually notices and tries to fix/balance...it's evolution :p
you can spec until your blue in the face melee tanks are just overpowered
no if's but's what's
theyre overpowered end of storyGee, thanks for the analysis there. o_O
I think perhaps the only problem with melee is that as others have pointed out, its TOO easy to overspec and cap melee. No other weapon class in the game can get +112 in its primary stat without counting spells or drugs, and without speccing a single point.
Why complain you just have to wait untill next patch they always so these things they overpower one class so every1 lom and reroll to it then next patch comes and POOF that class is gimped to hell and they complain :o
erm...
That happens because people complain. Sometimes it is unfounded and people do need to adapt.
I think in this case it isn't that easy to adapt. The only way to really fight them 1 on 1 is to keep your distance, but they move so fast, have a good shocker and can take your legs out easily. If someone can suggest a really good way for every class to combat that then I'll shut up and adapt :)
Here's the new op wars strategy guidelines from General Ben'd Meover:
Ppu's should move in front, taking point, they will be the first to meet the melee tanks, and paraspam them to death, all the rest just sits in the ug bar, drinking some beers over the "cool good old times " op war stories.
It don't really make a difference the tank is still gonna bust me up in little amount of effort and they have a shocker thats stonger than parra I'm really begining to get pissed off I use to like this game it use to be quite balanced. Of coarse every melee tank is gonna disagree its not them thats suffering there the ones thats laughing I feel sorry for the APU's you seen how fast they die to this thing?
This game right is turning into my equitment is better than yours I own you thats what its turning into gone are the days of skilled fighting now all you have to do is power lvl a tank and swing a stupid claw around while running around a stupid speeds GG kk
I really do not want to start a flame but this kind of shows how crap you are not being able to beat off a melee who has like 2m range or something, sure they have the tempest, if you can't fight them from far away or at least far away from them that they can't hit you then i suggest you invest some money in drugs that speed up agility and athletics , i use redflash (to use judge and for speed) and whiteflash (purely for speed).
I have no problems with melee so neither should you, now grow up and stop posting bs like "oh should i quit this game coz i keep getting pwned".
Matthew.v.smith
03-06-04, 15:00
Melee owns all my chars aswell.
It used to be pretty damn hard to kill Melee tanks with my HC tank but i still managed to win or at least get them to almost 50 health every time (ask Mystic Crusader he's the same lvl as me and I remember back in NF we had some fights and it ended as a draw 2/2 so we left it at that, it was tbh perfectly ballanced)
So now what?? Melee Tanks are owning everyone (poor Monks need but 2 hits to get nearly 3/4 of HP lost) and me myself had trouble aiming at one particular tank who had a Long Laserblade 2 and was chopping me to bits.
Moving so fast and doing massive dmg at the same time Even with a non rare.
More evidence of the Overpowerment is that my Friend is a melee tank from the Start and has never changed her setup.
Before we could kill maybe 1 or 2 people in PP together, but after this patch i went in to pp got tottaly owned in almost 4x2 hits from 2 melee tanks and had to do a runner.
I assumed she had died but then she zoned out and said she had killed 5 of them with just her Tai Chi sword!!
I went in to see and found 2 spys 2 Apus and 1 HC tank lying dead on the floor leaving (u guessed) 2 Melee tanks and a PPU running about desperately.
Overpowered....nuff.
Matty. :angel:
Dude, yes, using drugs is the answer...... good point.....
except for the fact that when a melee tank uses drugs he sure as hell is gonna be a lot faster than you with your HC tank PA and a cannon out once in a while to be able to shoot.
The current melee tank is Ben Johnson with an endorsement from Wilkinson Sword.
Clownst0pper
03-06-04, 15:03
Ive yet to have any problems fighting melee tanks on ikari.
You obviously cant go for the legs terror as ur a pistol user, just makes things difficult!
Id simply suggest practice, some good manouvering, and nice aiming.
Also, pack a holy parashock belt, it slows them down, like they slow you down. makes it abit more even.
I honestly think its a case of practice, ask h4ki, or strathus, or gh0st, ive roughed them up plenty enough.
@ Hinch, what is your problem with melee? Digestivebiscuit and me took down 5 TG melee tanks at Mc5 yesterday, And that was after I had to rez him on a friends PPU.
So no melee isnt overpowered, U just need good practice, nice con, and be decent at pvp.
The current melee tank is Ben Johnson with an endorsement from Wilkinson Sword.
:D lol
oh and yes, i'm having some problems with them too. ;) but i dont mind dying and i dont care about being uber or whatever. :)
Funny to see the tempest is commonly used now.
So no melee isnt overpowered, U just need good practice, nice con, and be decent at pvp.
I agree 100%ly.
Practice - Most of the typical gamer have too less experience in fighting against Melee.
nice con - ofc
pvp skills - right, the guys i recently have seen who died due to melee (tanks) were the same ones who died first in fights before the last patch ... so business as usual. once a nib, everytime a nib ... :cool:
In my Opinion its too early to nerf melee.... :(
Original monk
03-06-04, 15:33
@ Hinch, what is your problem with melee? Digestivebiscuit and me took down 5 TG melee tanks at Mc5 yesterday, And that was after I had to rez him on a friends PPU.
So no melee isnt overpowered, U just need good practice, nice con, and be decent at pvp.
thats cause TG melleetanks are nibs ...
edit: and whats a melleetank doing at mc5 ?
Ok ok yeah so this must mean I suck a PvP honestly when I'm standing toe to toe with a heavy combat tank and I get him down to low health but he kills me. I think well he gave me a good kicking HE IS GOOD but when I go against one melee tank he hits me 4 times and I have to run then I know somethings up I'm not saying a class is overpowered I'm saying one weapon type is overpowered. I really don't have any problems with fighting anyone else PE's most PE's I come across these days are totaly wank I mean wank there are some good ones. With the good ones I can have fights with them for up to 20 mins till one of us runs out of stam boosts or fucks up the crap ones well they just die since they don't have stealth anymore :lol: H-C tanks I love fighting H-C tanks its a challenge either of us could win the CS does nice damage but no where near as bad as the melee PoB which is what gets me. I can take up to 10 full bursts to the face
@ Hinch, what is your problem with melee? Digestivebiscuit and me took down 5 TG melee tanks at Mc5 yesterday, And that was after I had to rez him on a friends PPU.
lol
clearly those 5 melee tanks were pants then
ok i need good con?
ill blow my own trumpet here then my con is the best possiable setup for each of my char giving me the lowest pvp damage
my ppu has insane cons i dont use a ppr who cares i take less damage than an equal ppu using a ppr. my resists/cons on all chars are fine
I have a capped char of all classes on one or another server. I know how to play all. my hc tank never wore armour save a PA3 to help me get higher stats on CS. and i still beat everyone i dueled (appart from that damn rade/vet).
my pvp skills well lemmie see. yeah im as good as they get
now dont tell me to adjust my cons as i cant without gimping in other stats the cons is fine
my skills are fine
my movement is fine. (lemmie see oh i know i used to play for a top UK CS team yup thats fine)
ok lets look at damage lvls over time
melee out damages EVERYTHING
and i dont just mean a tank with a cs i mean it really does out damage everything not a single class can compete with melee's damage output
as for its range voila its not 2m as most of you say its about 10m try it and you'll see its within the range a pistol user or a hc tank needs to be to be accurate.
speed fastest by far.
any further points? oh yeah OVERPOWERED accept it you screamed nerf at my old hybrid because you just couldnt kill it now im screaming nerf at you because although we can kill a good melee tank they're killing too many to their 1.
go talk to a good melee tank try fenix or cannings and they'll demonstrate to you.
infact i dare say with current stats on melee fenix will be able to solo ANY clan on any server.
hell i saw him take down 4 fang hc tanks whilst he was unbuffed. no other class in teh game can do that.
remove head from ass because you love that overpowered feeling and come back down to the lvl everyone else is at and should be at.
your not unkilliable you just kill everyone else before they get you to half hp
I really do not want to start a flame but this kind of shows how crap you are not being able to beat off a melee who has like 2m range or something, sure they have the tempest, if you can't fight them from far away or at least far away from them that they can't hit you then i suggest you invest some money in drugs that speed up agility and athletics , i use redflash (to use judge and for speed) and whiteflash (purely for speed).
I have no problems with melee so neither should you, now grow up and stop posting bs like "oh should i quit this game coz i keep getting pwned".
2 M range huh?
Well it really does not feel like that I could have all the space in the world to run about in but as soon as I turn around that damn tank is right there remeber they don't need Hightech combat. If I turn around SLICE so I keep running I try my best to side strife him SLICE again he does not have a reticule no need to get a lock like me with a pistol . All time I'm running I can hear him swinging away it must be frustrating for him but in the end hes gonna kill me he has a shocker to stun me
overpowered nibs weapon choice ...nuff said
RogerRamjet
03-06-04, 15:59
Melee tanks before the patch weren't as good as a decent player of any other class, because the damage was so low. Slow a melee down and theyre screwed usually. After a fight in PP i think theyve decreased the range too, so just stay at a distance. Theres tactics that can win a melee hands down, and from countless sessions in NF i still cant counter-act them, just take time to find out what they are. And come on, the PoB and DG are tl 113 and 115, so they deserve to be good, especially when you dont use PA, coz im too purple.
i've told it before and i tell you again: nerf shockers! or just remove them from this bloody game. They are worse than para halo before. And that is the source of problem now - when u're paraed u cannot do anything against melee. And shockers have unlimited ammunition so drugs dont count as any solution really.
Damage is not that high really, just try to duel some melee tanks (without using of para) and test it for yourself. Poison specced PEs and HC tanks are overpowered in duel with melee. Just try it.
Or maybe i'm just a nib and loosing to everyone and everywhere... or maybe on Pluto we have a little more pvp skilled people? Nah, impossible of course. Right?
My private question to all good pluto HC tanks & PE pvpers - do u really have such problems with melee?
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 16:13
thats cause TG melleetanks are nibs ...
edit: and whats a melleetank doing at mc5 ?
I've had melee tanks in my MC5 group before. It was me on my HC tank, a melee tank, and a PPU. Was not a bad group at all. We were doing good then the TG came rolling in. Killed the first wave and went back to hunting. Then they brought in a shit load more of them we died and logged alts and killed them. All this was before MC5 was closed for awhile.
Slaughter
Good H-C tanks can still win over melee tanks.
The margin has just been tightened.
And don't tell me a level 35 melee tank wins all. My god that must have been one crappy H-C tank.
EDIT: and yes, I sense a slight range nerf on the melee as well.
Well fine what ever but the way I see it Melee > All all you need for an op war team is 5 melee tanks 3 PPU's the melee tanks will simply chop through the Apu's in seconds. Then they continue picking one person at a time 5 Melee tanks hacking at one person he's gonna die fast they would kill anyone and everyone its a fact :mad:
Original monk
03-06-04, 16:27
Well fine what ever but the way I see it Melee > All all you need for an op war team is 5 melee tanks 3 PPU's the melee tanks will simply chop through the Apu's in seconds. Then they continue picking one person at a time 5 Melee tanks hacking at one person he's gonna die fast they would kill anyone and everyone its a fact :mad:
well its better then 10 gatlingturrets and 10 ppu's and 1 constructor defending an op o_O
btw i was yust kidding here and not making a statement about mellee, i gonna keep quiet about mellee cause i wub my hybridtanky :P
@ slaughtermonk: ffcourse its possible, depending on the given situation :) but its also possible to hunt there with a PE or spy, only maybe not that smoothly as with other classes :)
mellee is up close he :) and with them new mc5 and all i dont wonna be upclose to long with them mobs, when they made the AI of mobgroups better it seems like the commander and he's mates also got a bit smarter ... ya get aggression of 1 and they all seem to attack ya :)
the harder the better in there tough :)
RogerRamjet
03-06-04, 16:32
Well fine what ever but the way I see it Melee > All all you need for an op war team is 5 melee tanks 3 PPU's the melee tanks will simply chop through the Apu's in seconds. Then they continue picking one person at a time 5 Melee tanks hacking at one person he's gonna die fast they would kill anyone and everyone its a fact :mad:
Barrels and AoE screw melees at OP fight, becuase they cant return fire. Snipers on hills do to. Melees are good for when the brawl starts in the middle, apart from that i havent made myself usefull for anything else.
And whos to say the other person doesnt come with 5 melees and 3 ppus.
Well, that's the thing.
If this goes on, the only people you'll se at op wars will be ppu's melee tanks and silent hunter spies with stealth.
RogerRamjet
03-06-04, 16:45
I think that amount of melee at an OP is a bit exagerated though. Most people wont change from their HC tank, or APU to a melee tank, or so id think. But there is a large number of players who LOM instantly to whats better, so these people are probably gonna tip the amount of melee going around into the "silly" end of things.
lol
go talk to a good melee tank try fenix or cannings and they'll demonstrate to you.
infact i dare say with current stats on melee fenix will be able to solo ANY clan on any server.
Yeah i was talking with Fenix, fighting even - 2 melee tanks, nothing formal, jsut an ordinary pp brawl. Me, just an average nib and famous melee pvp legend named Fenix. He lost, twice. Still, how can u explain that i have literally NO CHANCE against good HC tank? He tear me apart before i manage to get him to 1/3 hp. Same with good PE, although here chances are equal (still it's just a matter of luck as PE with good movement is able to outheal most of my damage...).
I dont really care about it though, i'm just getting little irritated with those nerf whines and moans. Nerf this! Nerf that! I was owned, it's impossible! Nerf him! Most of those whiners dont have slightest idea of what they are talking about. They just repeat what they heard and simply djust the exaggeration rate to achieve better effect...
But nonetheless, i'd like to have some good experienced tanks (HC and Melee) opinions about it. Maybe i'm wrong, but for me it seems that Melee is just close to HC now, a little better (equal maybe) with PEs and spies, and yeah - better than apus (surprise...). Still i dont see anything really overpowered in this. But maybe i'm wrong. So please, do some tests, each one of you, go fight with the melee, duel them, try various tactics and post your opinions here... Because as for now only arguments i keep hearing are: melee owns me in 4 hits! My poor ppu drop dead after one slice of PoB even if i'm fully buffed and heal running! My extreme superior HC tank suddenly (magic!) loose his aim when encountering melee and got wasted with just a 5 hits of DG!
In other words, there are obvious lies. There is no possibility to kill someone with 4 hits with melee. Well, unless he has 0 con, and 2/3 lvl. There is no possibility to kill bufffed ppu as he easily outheal any kind of melee dmg. So stop acting ridicoulus please and give me some valid arguments.
over and out
az
RogerRamjet
03-06-04, 16:53
Nicely put.
X you want a good hc tanks view?
im a good hc tank :)
your overpowered
before patch it was even as to who would win between me and a good melee tank.
now i loose 9/10
now i loose 9/10Wait, what was that you said before? Oh yeah...
"clearly you are pants then"
:angel:
Q`alooaith
03-06-04, 17:30
Let's talk about melee's downsides.
Range, you can't hit anything more than 3 metres from you.
AoE, you've got none you've got to target and kill one at a time.
Stealth, you can't hit stealthers.
Parashock, when your shocked you can't get close enough to hit, so your useless..
If you para barrel near the gates in an op fight's melee tank's get bogged down enough for you to shoot them with everything you have...
Melee's not overpowered, people said antibuff was overpowered, sprit ammo's overpower and all that.. Now people have learned how to deal with each situation, so rather then crying foul and nerf, think about what you can do, because if melee get's nerfed you know your next whoever you are.
I wonder why, since the last patch, there are only about 5 HC tanks left in NC?
I wonder why, since the last patch, there are only about 5 HC tanks left in NC?
That may not have to do with overpoweredness as much as the fact that it's basically a "new toy" for tanks, whenever something new get's added, you'll see tons of people making characters able to use this new thing.
Q`alooaith
03-06-04, 17:43
I think it's mostly new toy...
Rember when stealth was introduced? Everyone and their brother made a spy to use it and play..
Remember sniper rifles?
Remember the new drones, remember the dev which at the time was also called overpowered now look people have stopped shouting nerf nerf nerf.
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 17:44
remember the dev which at the time was also called overpowered now look people have stopped shouting nerf nerf nerf.
That's because it was nerfed.
Slaughter
fucking router. :mad:
anyway, remember the all mighty hybrids? remember the libby? remember the rifles when pistols did almost no damage?
stealth got removed from PE hands, now [almost] everyone is low tech 'cause their defense without stealth sucks, they can't run away heal come back fully buffed.
people just use stuff that makes them win fights, only a few remain what they were before the big change, stupid/lazy/skint/whatever. at least theyre not bandwagon hoppers
Q`alooaith
03-06-04, 17:52
That's because it was nerfed.
Slaughter
No it was fixxed..
I think it's basicaly that melee got the TL changes and damage changes, while all other weapon's damages and TL's where left in place..
So rather than crying nerf nerf nerf, how's about calling for the TL changes to all the other weapons, then you could PvP with non rares.. which shock horror, is meant to be possible.
So rather than crying nerf nerf nerf, how's about calling for the TL changes to all the other weapons, then you could PvP with non rares.. which shock horror, is meant to be possible.beacuse they already said those will probably not make it in before DoY
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 17:57
No it was fixxed..
What you call fixxed. The community calls nerf. Which KK calls balancing.
You see the differance?
Slaughter
One of the problem is that they raised the Tl but also raised the damage according to the new Tl. So an old TL 70 got raise to 90 and now got it's damage raised too.
And you can get massive Melee boosts from Imps (caugh Bat Queen Arm caugh) that no other imp will grant. So it's very easy to cap every weapon even if you haven't capped Str.
Q`alooaith
03-06-04, 18:04
What you call fixxed. The community calls nerf. Which KK calls balancing.
You see the differance?
Slaughter
Yes..
The community want's whatever it's hate fad of the month to be changed to such a point where they no longer have to fear it anymore in a fight.
KK want's to change thing's so everyone has a fair chance of winning given they are put in their ideal situation..
I like to reroll often so want low level stuff easy to use and effective for it's level.
Before the patch there were no melee tanks around, so obviously there was
heavy drawbacks with that class, now every other char is a melee tank so
obviously there is something wrong with it.
I wish they would nerf my class to fuck just so i can play my melee tank again
without beeing called overpowered.
And for all of you that say "oh i wish they would just fix the running away bug
instead of boosting dmg" you dont know what you are talking about.
The so called "melee" bug actually happends to everyone in the game, but,
because every other weapon has more range then melee the hit still registers.
So, if you want it that way, increase the melee range just slightly, enough
so that hits will still register, and nerf us back pre-patch and you will see a
whole new hell.
I was pleased with melee dmg pre patch, won a few lost a few just how it
should be. But wtf do I know, i'm drunk.
P.S.
Q: How can u tell if the melee tank is a noob?
A: He uses a shocker.
Plz KK remove those damn things from the game, i never used them anyway,
along witht he rest of the melee players, before patch and will never resort
to such lameness.
And a big FU to all you bandwagon kiddies.
It's funny how every melee tank was melee pre-patch nowdays... I guess
lomming the night before counts as that.
Darth Slayer
03-06-04, 18:14
I have no problems at all winning over melee tanks..
neither on HC-Tank nor on Pistol-PE
Yes but we play on Uranus where the majority are Nibs.
Last Fightnight I killed a Melee tank and still had over half health.
I'll admit trying to shoot him with a CS was a Pain so I switched to a Devourer. Now a Melee tank has to get close to u to hit and when u using a devourer close is good as they can't exactly dodge u at that range.
I apologise to any good melee tanks on Uranus it's just I ain't seen one yet...... :D
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 18:17
From everybody's experience, how do apus fair against melee tanks?
Dude, yes, using drugs is the answer...... good point.....
except for the fact that when a melee tank uses drugs he sure as hell is gonna be a lot faster than you with your HC tank PA and a cannon out once in a while to be able to shoot.
The current melee tank is Ben Johnson with an endorsement from Wilkinson Sword.
Well i was talkinga bout my Judge PE O_o lol..
From everybody's experience, how do apus fair against melee tanks?not
msg too short :x
darth slayer, who are you on Uranus? just outa curioisty... o_O
I really do not want to start a flame but this kind of shows how crap you are not being able to beat off a melee who has like 2m range or something, sure they have the tempest, if you can't fight them from far away or at least far away from them that they can't hit you then i suggest you invest some money in drugs that speed up agility and athletics , i use redflash (to use judge and for speed) and whiteflash (purely for speed).
I have no problems with melee so neither should you, now grow up and stop posting bs like "oh should i quit this game coz i keep getting pwned".
Um not beat of a melee who runs faster has as good or better resists, and a good shocker that slows u even futher and does insane dmg, hmm maybe you should try being on the recienving end you comment stinks of u being a melee yourself.
Melee atm is overpower end of story :/
give melee PA the ath hit that HC gets and I think everyone would be happy, PA is the BEST energy armor ANY class can use, tank PA looks the same whether its melee or HC armor....bulky and heavy.....to give on HC an ath hit, who consequently already takes one the second he equips his weapon is well kind of BS, then I think well melee doesnt take any ath hit so Ill just wear that, but oh wait it gives - 25 HC........
the main problem with melee is their ability to just run around lightning fast, hold down left mouse button, and just eat shit up, I have had a very high melee tank in the past, I deleted him some time ago, that class takes no skill at all, worse than an apu cause u dont even have the fizzle effect....
this is why in all those last man standing events and FFAs that go down melee comes out victorious, they are just too powerful for a class with the least chance of missing a shot......
not saying they should have a reticle but something obviously needs to be toned down a bit, and Im sure it will, melee is just having their day, like HC had their day when the dev owned everything and their mother in like 2 secs.....
another thing you should realize, there are just some godlike people in pvp, I fought one yesterday, even with my 80 ath and 101 agility I move rediculously fast on my PE, I was fighting another rifle PE, he was just constantly hitting me, and to boot, my head was black on my lil body thing, he was getting headshots everytime, he had incrediclble aim.....which sometimes in melee isnt too easy to perform....but what im saying is, my PE in one shot will do roughly 30 dmg per burst to a good setup capped player.....which is about what a DG does to me in one hit, if hes constantly hitting me, I will go down faster than shit.....
people you could be fighting may just be damn good, any really good person will seem overpowered, but when your fighting people who you know are shit in PvP(me) and they seem to win a crazy amount more now.....then u know a class is overpowered.....
I can personally tell now that Ive managed to buy 5 uber CS's, 3 ravs, and 1 dev for silly amounts of money that normally wouldve cost me millions....people are selling off all their HC weapons and trading em for melee....I personally just rerolled a HC tank on saturn just cause i got all these awesome weapons....melee will get nerfed and i got all your shit! haha
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 19:08
Yes..
The community want's whatever it's hate fad of the month to be changed to such a point where they no longer have to fear it anymore in a fight.
KK want's to change thing's so everyone has a fair chance of winning given they are put in their ideal situation..
I like to reroll often so want low level stuff easy to use and effective for it's level.
You make no since. You're views are completly one sided. You probally already rerolled to a melee tank is why your views are this way. And for that i am greatly sorry. It's to easy to cap dmg on melee. They ARE overpowered.
Slaughter
I have not read the entire post so if I repeat someone pls forgive meh, melee is not over powered it all depends who is playing. Here is a story for ya, yesterday at pp i got realy bored and decided to go ganking :) go in to pp c red pe and green tank I start shooting pe and tank attacks me with teh shocker and then dg I run around alil out healing his dg hit's but pistol pe got me down a bit, so I go out heal buff go back in (tank was 2 ranks higher)
and fight tank alone I almost killed him and my hp was at about 90% full I didn't even shot his legs ..... so the point is if you are not complete nib and have at least half ass dissent setup up you should not have much trouble with melee tanks...As a matter of fact I die twice as fast from hc tank, on my pe I never have trouble with melee tanks, if get chance dmg boost them and para or freeze pistol then they dead for sure no matter how good they r ...keke
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 19:18
I have not read the entire post so i repeat someone pls forgive meh, buit melee in not over powered it all depends who is playine. Here is a story for ya, yesterday at pp i(BD pe) got realy bored and desidet to go gunking :) go it to pp c red pe and green tank i start shoting pe and tanks attacks me with teh shocker and then dg i run around alil outhealing hes dg hit's but pistol pe got me down a bit, so i go out heal buff go back in (tank was 2 ranks higher)
and fght tank alone i olmost killed him with and my hp was at about 90% full i didn't even shot hies legs ..... so the point is if you ar not complete nib and have atleast half ass diesent setup up you should not have much trouble with melee tanks...As a matter of fact i die twise as fast from hc tank, on my pe i never have trouble with meee tanks, if get chance dmg boost them and para or freeze pistol then they dead for sure no matter how good they r ...keke
Must of been a nib tank tbh.
Slaughter
Must of been a nib tank tbh.
Slaughter
heh must have, and every other one i meet. There where some good ones that i just can't kill but they don't kill me either yes if you spy or apu er fucked if there is red melee tank next to ya lol but spy can stealth and apu should look around lot more then other classes hehe, on apu i kill teh tanks before they even get to me, maby get one or two shots in, most just turn around and try to run away but that usually don't work....
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 19:28
heh must have, and every other one i meet. There where some good ones that i just can't kill but they don't kill me either yes if you spy or apu er fucked if there is red melee tank next to ya lol but spy can stealth and apu should look around lot more then other classes hehe, on apu i kill teh tanks before they even get to me, maby get one or two shots in, most just turn around and try to run away but that usually don't work....
Agree to a point. With the range nerf on spells and the random dmg it's hard to kill a good tank before he gets to you. I used to be able to all the time. But now it's a toss up. Most tanks on saturn are smart enogh not to run from a APU. That's just stupid. If you run your dead simple as that.
Slaughter
heh, yes lol teh hl will follow u evrywhere even around the corners lol. I haven't played me apu for a long while just went pking last night on him for the first time in 4 months heh no serious competition since there was only 86 ppl online when i went heh... ill go today again when there is more ppl and try to pick on some good melee to test it heh, so tommorrow u might c me post that teh tank r too strong lol ......... but i doubt it heh..:D
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 19:37
heh, yes lol teh hl will follow u evrywhere even around the corners lol. I haven't played me apu for a long while just went pking last night on him for the first time in 4 months heh no serious competition since there was only 86 ppl online when i went heh... ill go today again when there is more ppl and try to pick on some good melee to test it heh, so tommorrow u might c me post that teh tank r too strong lol ......... but i doubt it heh..:D
heh "have fun storming the castle boys" sorry watched that movie last night.
Slaughter
Underground
03-06-04, 19:38
heres the problem
melee got boosted. now theres 2 types of people playing melee tank, those that have been melee a while, know how to fight to their advantage, and were owning people right after the patch because of the poison damage now, and theres those that got owned, couldnt be arsed to learn how to fight melee, and have rerolled or lommed to melee, these ones are basically easy to take down imo, they dont really know what to do other then hold down LMB and run around crazy, however because of the boosts theres a few damn sick melee tanks out there now...
Just shoot their legs out tho ;) then say you cant kill a melee tank :D
hehe, yep it's all about who's is playing, can't judje the hole class just by those few skilled ppl who took time to learn how to play, there is olways a way.... So to all those ppl who get owned by melee start carying shockers(god i hate those thiongs lol) and practice er aim (aim on legs) thats it and with no time there will be posts saying that melee is underpowered again heh...
steweygrrr
03-06-04, 19:49
darth slayer, who are you on Uranus? just outa curioisty... o_O
as he hasn't answered yet, he is Scorpius. Who be you?
Q`alooaith
03-06-04, 19:53
Slaughteruall,
You have no idea why I reroll two of my char slot's constantly so don't call my a bandwagon jumper.
Currently my char slot's are Pistol spy, Hybrid Monk, Melee/pistol tank that has been such since rolled three or more patches ago (and I don't plan to lom)
And my RP tank which uses melee and pistols to be similar to my first tank.
I will probably reroll my Role play tank first though out of this lot, then my pistol spy.. Might make droner PPU's or some other such..
I roll to have fun and play all the weird and whacky combination's most people laugh at for being so underpowered..
Melee's stronger than other weapon's right now, but I'd rather boost the other weapon's to nearer melee than to nerf melee down as melee is not easy as many mob's have a very very very strong melee attack (ie hurlers butchees)
Melee's stronger than other weapon's right now, but I'd rather boost the other weapon's to nearer melee than to nerf melee down as melee is not easy as many mob's have a very very very strong melee attack (ie hurlers butchees)
indeed don't nerf sht no more just boost others weapons a bit(so tirred to c all the nerf threads, ppl ask for boost when they get it they ask for nerf)
p.s. loming me melee tank back to hc, i just love those huge cannons, camo pa and cs looks just tooo sexy!!!!111one:D
I love the reasoning:
If I lose to X, its cause X is overpowered.
If you defeat X, its cause the user of X sucks or you suck.
Classic.
Seriously, when someone gives an anecdote showing that melee isnt overpowered, cant you guys come up with something better than "Well they must have sucked"????
I think the fix for melee would be to change the poison damage from instant to damage over time. Instant is overpowered as well as doesn't really make sense.
I've got a melee, I had it for months and months, and i felt a little bit overpowered before the patch. but it was almost balanced.
Now, with the new patch, i don't even play with my melee tank. it's too easy and i don't get any honor killing other people.
I've tested the "who's dying first" with a HC tank that uses a CS. We both stood straight looking at each other and we started firing at each other at the same time, and guess what, the heavy died first. He was capped, i wasn't.
i think the Heavy should deal FAR MORE DAMAGE, but be even slower :D , and melee not that much damage but fire and move very quickly. atm the melee is just doing too much damage.
the idea of doing poison, xray etc is good, but the overall damage is way too high, it has to be like it as before.
i hope it will be fixed.
From everybody's experience, how do apus fair against melee tanks?
bend over kiss your ass goodbye
I've got a melee, I had it for months and months, and i felt a little bit overpowered before the patch. but it was almost balanced.
Now, with the new patch, i don't even play with my melee tank. it's too easy and i don't get any honor killing other people.
I've tested the "who's dying first" with a HC tank that uses a CS. We both stood straight looking at each other and we started firing at each other at the same time, and guess what, the heavy died first. He was capped, i wasn't.
i think the Heavy should deal FAR MORE DAMAGE, but be even slower :D , and melee not that much damage but fire and move very quickly. atm the melee is just doing too much damage.
the idea of doing poison, xray etc is good, but the overall damage is way too high, it has to be like it as before.
i hope it will be fixed.So why did you stand face to face? Most encounters arent that simple.
What would happen say if you each started far apart, and the HC tank started out shooting your legs with the CS, and damaged you before you even got in range to use your melee. Then what?
Its one thing to say its overpowered.
Its another to say its overpowered when you negate the weaknesses in your testing.
I've got a melee, I had it for months and months, and i felt a little bit overpowered before the patch. but it was almost balanced.
Now, with the new patch, i don't even play with my melee tank. it's too easy and i don't get any honor killing other people.
I've tested the "who's dying first" with a HC tank that uses a CS. We both stood straight looking at each other and we started firing at each other at the same time, and guess what, the heavy died first. He was capped, i wasn't.
i think the Heavy should deal FAR MORE DAMAGE, but be even slower :D , and melee not that much damage but fire and move very quickly. atm the melee is just doing too much damage.
the idea of doing poison, xray etc is good, but the overall damage is way too high, it has to be like it as before.
i hope it will be fixed.
This is terrible reasoning, at close range, the HC should never ever even come close to winning. You can also fire a ravager or your CS from quite a distance away. Up close and in your face, a melee should win ever time, your advantage is distance, the one thing melee is severely lacking.
the melee is so fast that usually it's already on its target before the other guy has noticed it ...
and also i dont know many heavy that can shoot you in the legs from a very long distance, with a CS for exemple.
This is terrible reasoning, at close range, the HC should never ever even come close to winning. You can also fire a ravager or your CS from quite a distance away. Up close and in your face, a melee should win ever time, your advantage is distance, the one thing melee is severely lacking.ok tell me, what fights you have in long distance. with HC.
3 outta 4 blobs miss when ur further than 10 meters away
ok tell me, what fights you have in long distance. with HC.
3 outta 4 blobs miss when ur further than 10 meters away
10 meters in more than enough - melee cant do anything to you... just keep such distance and you'll win. Easy?
ok tell me, what fights you have in long distance. with HC.
3 outta 4 blobs miss when ur further than 10 meters away
rav is er friend u can hit anything from very good distance and cs is not that bad if u crutch u'll hit atleast half of them witch is enoug to breake attackers legs.... or if er got sht for aiming then just wait till he gets closer and then shot his legs then run off heal and come back or just keep enough distance to not get hit by melee but enough to shoot him.....
Clownst0pper
03-06-04, 21:35
clearly those 5 melee tanks were pants then
Have you not just proved your own point?
There are good melee tanks, and Bad melee tanks.
Just like every other class type.
it is the good player in any class which needs nerfing, not the class itself.
I love my melee tank, and would class myself as very good with him.
TG having those 5 were a prime example of jumping on a band wagon, and really, being absolutely terrible.
Sorry, but if your loosing to Melee, you need some practice
Clownst0pper
03-06-04, 21:36
From everybody's experience, how do apus fair against melee tanks?
With PPU support, on team speak, very easily, without PPU well your useless.
If you do have a PPU, which you probably will shadow, just back away, have 2 anti shock drugs in ur belt, anti buff them, and there going down.
Takes practice, but very very doable.
Like I continue to say, seems most people need some neofrag sessions with some melee tanks.
(aim at there legs with HL also ;) )
melee is put on balance with hc now.
I think in general we need to look at boosts to the PE, they have become the underpowered class now. Especially rifle PEs, do those even exist anymore? when will they fix the pain easer reloading bug so I don't have to use two PEs for low tech.
Heck I beated more people on my HC PE yesterday then my rifle PE who is ridiculously nerfed. My HL damage is brought down and I can't use my stealth 2 anymore. So why not go HC. I do more damage then a disruptor using a plasma cannon or speed gun on my HC PE. this is ridiculous.
I only wonder what I would be if I was an MC PE. Still I think somerthing unique needs to be given to PEs after stealth is removed, they are kind of useless now apart from novelty. In fact PEs seem to have seem to have been weaker then tanks 1 on 1, after the patch I only played for 1 day but it looked like executioner damage was rebalanced (nerfed)
* edit antishock drugs don't help shit, you get flash from it and u can only have 1 or 2 in your qb, it takes a fraction of a second to switch back to the shocker and slow you down again.
Also MC needs a slight nerfing even though its ok, because HC's reloading time is ridiculous, yet MC does equal or more damage, can run faster, and doesn't require much skill in aim. All you do is you just hold the button and fling your mouse around, and you'll kill 5 people.
In addition stamina boosters need a big nerf, they work much better then psi boosters. Making no drawback to using melee at all.
Range is also stupid, we all know what op fights are like? its just a big twister of tanks and monks trying to hump each others legs. There is no viable ranged solution to anything. AoE is melees only weakness, and with their speed who cares.
Clownst0pper
03-06-04, 21:43
melee is put on balance with hc now.
I think in general we need to look at boosts to the PE, they have become the underpowered class now. Especially rifle PEs, do those even exist anymore? when will they fix the pain easer reloading bug so I don't have to use two PEs for low tech.
Heck I beated more people on my HC PE yesterday then my rifle PE who is ridiculously nerfed. My HL damage is brought down and I can't use my stealth 2 anymore. So why not go HC. I do more damage then a disruptor using a plasma cannon or speed gun on my HC PE. this is ridiculous.
I only wonder what I would be if I was an MC PE. Still I think somerthing unique needs to be given to PEs after stealth is removed, they are kind of useless now apart from novelty. In fact PEs seem to have seem to have been weaker then tanks 1 on 1, after the patch I only played for 1 day but it looked like executioner damage was rebalanced (nerfed)
PE's are far from useless. When you can take 10+ hits from a HL, and god knows how much CS damage, + if you get good with an earp, will, everyones going down.
As for OP wars, well, ive just experianced it on ikari, which I havnt for a long time. And yes, there utterlly useless when people are PPU buffed. :(
has anyone factored into their "testing" and observations that everyone apart from MC also got a huge boost, in the form of the reworked drugs? sure, MC got an "insta-boost" in that they had to do nothing to start using the new damage-types on their weapons - it'll take the others a couple days before they work the new drugs into their systems.
but please, don't tell me that HC tanks didn't get a massive boost with the +25HC on beast now. and pistol PEs and Spys with nightspider? fantastic boost, and no side effects (none that matter).
everyone else got drugs to make them faster, take more damage and give out more damage - add that into the equation and see what you get.
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 22:00
has anyone factored into their "testing" and observations that everyone apart from MC also got a huge boost, in the form of the reworked drugs? sure, MC got an "insta-boost" in that they had to do nothing to start using the new damage-types on their weapons - it'll take the others a couple days before they work the new drugs into their systems.
but please, don't tell me that HC tanks didn't get a massive boost with the +25HC on beast now. and pistol PEs and Spys with nightspider? fantastic boost, and no side effects (none that matter).
everyone else got drugs to make them faster, take more damage and give out more damage - add that into the equation and see what you get.
Must of missed it i dont remember ever seeing a +25 PPW drug for the monks. So where is there drug boost that your talking about?
Slaughter
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 22:01
It's so silly when people use range as a way to prove melee tanks are balanced.
Fact of the matter is 95% of nc combat ends up close range anyway. In mere seconds you can close the gap on an opponent from very far away, and we know melee tanks are the fastest players out there.
"Just keep your Distance"
"You shouldn't beat a melee tank up close"
:rolleyes:
has anyone factored into their "testing" and observations that everyone apart from MC also got a huge boost, in the form of the reworked drugs? sure, MC got an "insta-boost" in that they had to do nothing to start using the new damage-types on their weapons - it'll take the others a couple days before they work the new drugs into their systems.
but please, don't tell me that HC tanks didn't get a massive boost with the +25HC on beast now. and pistol PEs and Spys with nightspider? fantastic boost, and no side effects (none that matter).
everyone else got drugs to make them faster, take more damage and give out more damage - add that into the equation and see what you get.
That +25 HC serves no purpose but make my HC PE cap her plasma cannon. Most tanks can naturally cap their CS anyways.
So why did you stand face to face? Most encounters arent that simple.
What would happen say if you each started far apart, and the HC tank started out shooting your legs with the CS, and damaged you before you even got in range to use your melee. Then what?
Its one thing to say its overpowered.
Its another to say its overpowered when you negate the weaknesses in your testing.
Chances are it would be to hard to knock the melee's legs out since he's allready traveling at crazy speed and strafing back and forth. Even if you made all of the shots in the 1-3 seconds it would take for the melee to get to you his legs would still be fine.
It's so silly when people use range as a way to prove melee tanks are balanced.
Fact of the matter is 95% of nc combat ends up close range anyway. In mere seconds you can close the gap on an opponent from very far away, and we know melee tanks are the fastest players out there.
"Just keep your Distance"
"You shouldn't beat a melee tank up close"
:rolleyes:
Exatcly the range of your vision, the small size of the zone and the speed of people leads to all fighting ending up close. Maybe if stamina boosters were removed we would finally see some sort of skill in endurance management.
And of course the melee tank runs the fastest so you can't pull any distance with your cannon or rifle drawn out. Cannons are still balanced because of the damage, rifles are just stupid nowadays.
I bet noone can beat me with a rifle if I was using a capped DG. I probably run so fast that I can't even be sniped and I have all that psi use as well so I can pretty much get 500% on my heal and stagger cast it too. and what? +9 psi level drugs? :/ I can even do better on the psi as a tank. Rifler try to pull distance? I just run to him he can't run from me. Rifler start off in a distance? well i'm so fast I can sprint across the zone in a split second.
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 22:12
Right on Rai.
I seriously doubt rifle users can abuse their range against melee tanks. I've never had a problem as a friggin APU running up to rifle users from a distance. Well unless it was SH. Then I would be running away. :D
I sort of see melee tanks as PEs. But with more damage, and no need for buffs, and um faster.
LOL
I sort of see melee tanks as PEs. But with more damage, and no need for buffs, and um faster.
LOLO_o
that didn't make sense :p
if melee is balanced with hc, then pigs are white angels that can fly.
Right on Rai.
I seriously doubt rifle users can abuse their range against melee tanks. I've never had a problem as a friggin APU running up to rifle users from a distance. Well unless it was SH. Then I would be running away. :D
I sort of see melee tanks as PEs. But with more damage, and no need for buffs, and um faster.
LOL
well the fact is APUs can be taken down, but you are talking about trying to shoot down a huge running refridgerator with a fucking sword that chops through everything. The refridgerator also happens to move in the speed of light, all of this while trying to take him out with a wimpy rifle that not only slows you down but fires bursts of ping pong balls. If you could do it.....I envy your skill.
did I mention that it could also freeze you?
Must of missed it i dont remember ever seeing a +25 PPW drug for the monks. So where is there drug boost that your talking about?
Slaughter
monks are irrelevant to the current discussion - that MCs are overpowered against certain classes - since monks sucked against MC before the patch, after the patch, and so on. monks suck against MC period. unless they have a PPU, then it's game over no matter what.
tanks got the 25HC which, if you think about it at all, they can use to redo their STR setup and cap FOR, which help no end against MC tanks. or quit using PA, which makes them faster, or any number of ways to add to their setup.
and so on.
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 22:25
I know exactly what you mean Rai.
O_o
that didn't make sense :p
IMO melee tanks have fantastic defense. They have no need to buff, at least not to the extent PEs have to do it. They are faster than pes. AND they do more damage.
That's what I meant.
O_o
if melee is balanced with hc, then pigs are white angels that can fly.
:confused:
monks are irrelevant to the current discussion - that MCs are overpowered against certain classes - since monks sucked against MC before the patch, after the patch, and so on. monks suck against MC period. unless they have a PPU, then it's game over no matter what.
tanks got the 25HC which, if you think about it at all, they can use to redo their STR setup and cap FOR, which help no end against MC tanks. or quit using PA, which makes them faster, or any number of ways to add to their setup.
and so on.
You are correct, however the amount of force punishment tanks could take are already so high we would be talking a very small percentage difference. In addition who said melee weapons only did force damage? The PA is favoured because it gives better everything resists, if its anything tanks want it for any damage type other then force. It is really limited if you think about it, it helps HC PEs to no end, but thats it.
O_o
that didn't make sense :p
if melee is balanced with hc, then pigs are white angels that can fly.
in that case, pigs ARE white angels that can fly....
melee is fine the way it is now, it always needed a boost, itīs finally worth using.
stop bitching about it, and learn to fight it.
A melee tank is NOT hard to kill.
in that case, pigs ARE white angels that can fly....
melee is fine the way it is now, it always needed a boost, itīs finally worth using.
stop bitching about it, and learn to fight it.
A melee tank is NOT hard to kill.
who said they are not killable...after all you are a HC tank. It is certainly a pain in the butt for the other classes, but MC tanks can still die, its no where near as ridiculous as hybrids preprenerf.
who said they are not killable...after all you are a HC tank. It is certainly a pain in the butt for the other classes, but MC tanks can still die, its no where near as ridiculous as hybrids preprenerf.
I donīt think anyone said they couldnīt be killed, but everyone is saying they are overpowered..
they arenīt
and thatīs the reason i posted this..
a thing can only be overpowered if it cannot be killed in a 1on1 by skill or dirty tricks.
melee can easily be killed in 1on1..
and no it is not only my HC tank that can do it.
my PE can too
my 2 other chars are in no lvl nor condition to PvP at all.
and Iīve seen mc tanks dying without getting to hit a single time.
For all I care, everyone can go MC..
Iīll be the one standing on the top of the hill, doing a war cry when yīall lying dead on the battlefield.
You are correct, however the amount of force punishment tanks could take are already so high we would be talking a very small percentage difference. In addition who said melee weapons only did force damage? The PA is favoured because it gives better everything resists, if its anything tanks want it for any damage type other then force. It is really limited if you think about it, it helps HC PEs to no end, but thats it.
capping FOR is hugely important against pierce based weapons. many tanks i met pre-patch on my MC hadn't estimated this, and fell hard. look at their armour - the average tank usesa mix of PA and INQ armour, but INQ has really low FOR PRC armour. couple that with the tendency to throw all STR into HC...
i met a very good, very famous tank well before the patch, and repeatedly cut him up horribly. when i asked him afterwards what happened, he told me he had no FOR. that's the difference - if i had used pure energy it would have been a different story.
Prodigious
03-06-04, 22:46
tip for tanks(HC)
start using redflash, great agl/ath and it doesnt affect hlt now, meaning it only fucks up MC cos of the -PSU
tip for tanks(HC)
start using redflash, great agl/ath and it doesnt affect hlt now, meaning it only fucks up MC cos of the -PSU
test before you post bullshit.
speed drugs on tanks, make them run fast on their own screen, and be slow as fuck on everyone elses screens.
god, im fed up of hearing this "over powered" shit all the time.
1 character class can be better than others, people went on for fucking ages "MONKS ARE OVER POWERED" now melee tanks make a come back, fuck sake!
SHUT UP! :mad: :o :mad:
Saito Hajime
03-06-04, 23:33
I cant say if melee is overpowered. My resists need a TON of work. But, I have to say the PA situation is a bit screwed, I dont see the need for there to be such a drastic speed difference between the classes, especially since you dont really have to aim melee attacks and they seem to do nearly as much if not more damage than HC.
just my 2 cents.
RogerRamjet
03-06-04, 23:34
One class gets a boost that makes it as good as other classes and people moan. Most wont be happy till its their class alone who can kill other people. Just becuase melees couldnt do much in the past on the majority of classes doesnt mean that now they can hurt people they should be nerfed into the floor. Its the people who LOM to melee immediatley that ruin the class, and on Uranus theres a few of them. Ive been melee since i started. I never complained for a boost. I watched at OPs as other clan members on APUs and HC tank took down the enemy, and i count myself as an OK melee, its just i couldnt do anything against holy buffs and outhealing PPUs.
Let us have our fun guys.
I can bring down 2 [hc] tanks, not very good ones granted, but still. if I'd have 2 melee users on my back I'd probably be dead now, coz someone stole my viperking when I crashed during the event in pp :mad:
always liked it better without PA, and with beast I can cap rof on cs
melee tanks was mean to my pe :( 3 of em :(:(:( i was runing out of pepper park because they was scary and killed me very quick and easy :wtf:
btw my pe has like 430 hp and over 50 resist on fire xray 75 on energy 35 on posion
melee tanks was mean to my pe :( 3 of em :(:(:( i was runing out of pepper park because they was scary and killed me very quick and easy :wtf:
btw my pe has like 430 hp and over 50 resist on fire xray 75 on energy 35 on posion
lol that summm gimped resists...... id kill ya with unlabled plasma cannon :D
edit: err i take that back tpc maybe but not unlabled :D , energy is too low.........
ok, my last post in this thread cause i'm fed up with it.
KEEP YOUR DISTANCE is your only valid tactic against melee. It does not matter if every single fight take place in close distance because there is close distance and closer distance (for melee). Basically, if u try not just to strafe and run around (as in ever other fight) but actually run AWAY from the melee and just keep those 2 meters distance from him all the time - at least 50% of his hits wont be registered and you can keep shooting him all the time. Not mention one hit in the legs...
Another myth is that melee tanks are superfast (remember, there is a cap on speed, there is absolutely no difference - except on your monitor - in speed above around 90 agility/ 70 athletics (it depends on the class a little as well since speed is based on the DEX).
I've asked for some arguments, facts. Do some tests and stop mindlessly tapping at the keyboard and repeating the same phrase hundreds of times over and over again. If u really think melee is overpowered then give us some proof of it (and no, "omg i've died to a melee! Nerf em!" is NOT a proof)
lol that summm gimped resists...... id kill ya with unlabled plasma cannon :D
edit: err i take that back tpc maybe but not unlabled :D , energy is too low.........
You sir don't know what you are talking about did you ever think about what armor hes wear :wtf: 450 hitpoints is good
humm 75 energy if that natural resist add armor and shit too that you will easyly get over 130 or 140 resist with 450 hitpoints he will easyly take 10 HL to the face
KEEP YOUR DISTANCE is your only valid tactic against melee. It does not matter if every single fight take place in close distance because there is close distance and closer distance (for melee). Basically, if u try not just to strafe and run around (as in ever other fight) but actually run AWAY from the melee and just keep those 2 meters distance from him all the time - at least 50% of his hits wont be registered and you can keep shooting him all the time. Not mention one hit in the legs...
"KEEP YOUR DISTANCE" isnt a valid solution. For example, if i snipe someone on my riflespy and he sees me, he can get to me in those few seconds i need to get out my stealth and activate it. DISTANCE IS NOT AN OPTION. Running away from a melee tank when he is close enough still does not help. It just gives you some more time till you drop. And one hit in the legs does shit 90% of the time. Not to mention theres guns that cant really hit the legs and the chance of breaking someones legs in 3rd person is extremely small.
Another myth is that melee tanks are superfast (remember, there is a cap on speed, there is absolutely no difference - except on your monitor - in speed above around 90 agility/ 70 athletics (it depends on the class a little as well since speed is based on the DEX).Melee tanks ARE superfast. There is a huge difference between 75/75 and 100/100 for example. And theres much more that affects runspeed.
I've asked for some arguments, facts. Do some tests and stop mindlessly tapping at the keyboard and repeating the same phrase hundreds of times over and over again. If u really think melee is overpowered then give us some proof of it (and no, "omg i've died to a melee! Nerf em!" is NOT a proof)For me it is proof enough that i have ZERO chance against melee tanks when i am pretty good against any other class. I don't care if i die to someone who is better than me, but if i see a melee tanks, i leave. Theres just no point in even trying. YOU actually don't give any arguments, you just say "OMFG YOU ARE SO STUPID LOLZ!!1" without saying WHY. o_O
/edit
@Plague, you better shut up, youre talking crap here.
@Xylaz, DM me if you dont wanna post again. :lol:
"KEEP YOUR DISTANCE" isnt a valid solution. For example, if i snipe someone on my riflespy and he sees me, he can get to me in those few seconds i need to get out my stealth and activate it. DISTANCE IS NOT AN OPTION. Running away from a melee tank when he is close enough still does not help. It just gives you some more time till you drop. And one hit in the legs does shit 90% of the time. Not to mention theres guns that cant really hit the legs and the chance of breaking someones legs in 3rd person is extremely small.The test was a melee tank and HC tank standing toe to toe, not moving, attacking each other.
In THAT case, yes, distance would matter.
No, the HC tank wouldnt kill the melee tank at range.
BUT
The melee tank would arrive with less HPs that way, and going toe to toe would perhaps be more realistic.
I am not saying "keeping distance" is necessarily realistic. I am only saying getting a full health HC tank and a full health melee tank, walking them into each other's face, and attacking without moving certainly is NOT realistic AT ALL.
Thats all I was saying.
"KEEP YOUR DISTANCE" isnt a valid solution. For example, if i snipe someone on my riflespy and he sees me, he can get to me in those few seconds i need to get out my stealth and activate it. DISTANCE IS NOT AN OPTION. Running away from a melee tank when he is close enough still does not help. It just gives you some more time till you drop. And one hit in the legs does shit 90% of the time. Not to mention theres guns that cant really hit the legs and the chance of breaking someones legs in 3rd person is extremely small.
you have to shoot at the toes in 3rd person, to hit legs
Well, just assuming it isn't overpowered, and KK don't nerf it, i'll bet you won't be seeing many hc tanks anymore and a server full of knights and wizards, and then we can call the game Reactors @ Dragons.
Well, just assuming it isn't overpowered, and KK don't nerf it, i'll bet you won't be seeing many hc tanks anymore and a server full of knights and wizards, and then we can call the game Reactors @ Dragons.
Probably and TBH, i can't blame them, as theres little reasons to play a HC tank as they are. What tank wouldn't want that speed, defence possibilities, instant poison damage and PA without ath penalty ? The ability of fully capping any MC weapon at what 200 MC ? a HC tank need at least 220 to CLOSE to capping any of his weapons, and therefore can't afford any FOR.
Mc tank: But Gohei, HC tanks have drugs that gives 25+ to HC now, don't whine! You can easily afford 50 FOR and still reach 200 HC combat.
Gohei: No of course i won't whine now that HC tanks has drugs, cus every other class allso need drugs to be able to cap their weapons, right ?
Rifle PE: stfu Gohei! I have to balance between agl and RC and i won't be able to cap the Pain easer unless i want to be a slow fuck. And speed is probably the only thing that keeps me alive.
Gohei: Shit ur right, PEs were supposed to cap the rares without sarcryfices. If u would have been a RC spy and said the same thing, i would have agreed with you, but ur not so i don't. The tank has two ways to go- MC or HC, thats it. And IMO they should be equal to eachother, both with as many CONs and withdraws.
Jusst the fact that MC tank don't need any TC to use a TL 113 weapon, and therefore can reach a sick amount of agl makes them overpowered.
KK- wheres the TL 113 non TC cannon with pierce/force/poison damage ? :mad:
Not gona attack the stunner, it's jusst to early in the day for that.
mc tank = teh win!!! \o/
and they are really effective... had a op fight vs shadow last night... and guess what char gave us the most problems?
oh yea.. mc tank
Melee tanks would be perfectly balanced now... if not for a few things. They cap their weapons rediculously easilly. They run the fastest in the game. Have the best defense in the game UNBUFFED. And the only thing that outdamages them is an APU.
The only way to kill a Melee tank without being a lot more skilled, or outnumbering it, or getting lucky, is to sit on a hill that the melee tank cannot physically climb and shoot it. Then you'd have to hope the melee tank isn't smart and just takes hits while trying to run up the same unclimbable hill/cliff/mountain/wall.
Saying they're balanced because you killed a capped melee tank nib doesn't mean it's balanced. Same with saying that they're unbalanced because you got killed by a melee tank that was more skilled and would have beat you regardless of class. But presenting facts does show they're overpowered, and reducing their damage output isn't the only way to make them a fairer class.
Just because melee sucked for a long time is not an excuse to make them overpowered.
And before you ask...
Yes, I've killed many Melee tanks post-patch on my PE. Yes, I've also had many close fights that should have been easy, except for the melee boost. And yes, I've lost to Melee tanks as well (though not very often).
Melee weapons should do a LOT of damage close-range. A few swipes of a sword should kill you (and it does). But they swing far too fast. I doubt anyone could swing a longsword with that speed and have any kind of power behind it. And I'd say swinging a sword or claw or axe or whatever is a lot more tiring then say... pulling the trigger of an SMG. And certain implants make being Melee far too easy.
So I'd suggest nerfing the batqueen arm into oblivion, removing the melee eye (really how does an eye help you swing a sword better?) and adding an agility malus to melee PA. Then reduce the attack speed of Melee slightly (Don't have exact numbers because the shots/min on show-info doesn't work) and increase stam drain by 2x. Then they'd be perfectly fine in my opinion.
Now that all sounds good except for the fact that the wpl bonus realy helps HC tanks (melee eye) so, maybe change that to a hc eye? :-)
yeh give us a HC eye, and slow those fecking MCs down. im not really for turning MCs into HCs with just different weapons, but that would sort the problem
RogerRamjet
04-06-04, 14:09
I agree, give HCs an eye.
ok then, one last post and then I'll shut up and start lomming to HC to show everyone how much overpowered it is.
i've done some tests and checked few things and here they are:
Advantages and disadvantages of melee.
It is not overpowered - as for its TL at least
compare it with CS on the (good) resists of capped tank.
CS: 80-90 dmg per burst
PoB: 25-35 dmg per swipe
DG: 20- 30 dmg per swipe (yes, it is wierd, but he probably had lower poison resists, that's all)
Now, melee can kill in approx. 10 swipes right? CS can kill in basically 4 bursts, but of course it's harder with HC weapons to aim. Still, melee has to get close to HC tank which helps aiming i guess. Time required to kill an opponent is basically the same with CS and melee. But melee dont need to aim, so its supposedly easier.
So, there is a main problem with RoF here. Melee has very high rof in order to compensate lack of distance. Thus one might think good solution might be lowering the rof, but it would make fight just more random (if all hits got registered u'll die in 10 hits, if not i'll die without even scratching you). But maybe tunning it down slightly might help a little.
Main disadvantage of melee, if someone escape from me i cannot hit him (at least 50% of my hits arent registered), same with the pvp if someone actually knows how to move.
One simple leg hit make melee defensless, same with all various versions of para, even the slightest one has the power of slowing down the melee thus lowering his offensive and defensive capabilities. Is it enough to compensate the advantage of high rof dmg? Maybe not, indeed.
The problem is that with that high RoF and random dmg, server update melee dmg with a little delay, sometimes adding few hits into one. So if i manage to caught u unprepared and swipe you few times before the fight begins nothing changes but after few seconds, when we start fighting (and another dmg is in queue) u suddenly loose 150 hp, then again after few seconds 50 hp and so on. This is very dangerous as u cannot act accordingly to the result of fight. And many people die because they are not expecting such immense dmg lag. It is pretty common with melee and making it very dangerous weapon.
Just try the new invisible trike dmg and u'll see how it affects the combat. Most people realise they are under attack when their health drop below 1/2 and its mostly too late to do anything. Same here is with melee.
So maybe indeed, melee is too powerful (but only a bit... :P), not in the terms of dmg or the TL, but rather due to the game mechanics and server lags it's causing. Making the poison dmg as DOT might help a little, not sure about lowering the rof but from the technical point of view its probably the only viable solution to avoid this.
Now, about your favourite melee myths. How can u say that melee tanks has best resists? Melee has exactly the same resists as HC tanks. PE has even better resists when fully buffed, so please - think sometimes, it doesnt hurt
And ffs, if u still think melee are superfast then just put some points in agility and shut up. Every single class in this bloody game can get to realistic speed cap, whether with drugs or not. It is around 90/80 (depends a little on the dex as wel) - and there is absolutely no difference if i have 150 agility and 130 athletics, i've tested it many many times. Even if u feel the difference on your screen, the real speed is almost the same. I was testing it with my 95/75 tank and the other melee drugged as hell with around 160/130. We ran from the crp to the OP and back. Yes he was faster, but he got to the OP 2 meters before me. Of course there is a difference with 70/70. Realistic cap is around 90 agility / 80 athletics (little less for spies, little more for monks). Got it?
Actually cap is 75/75 or 150/0 or 0/150 wich every way you prefer. I believe
CoDi stated this in a thread a while back. Somebody correct me if i'm wrong.
Now, about your favourite melee myths. How can u say that melee tanks has best resists? Melee has exactly the same resists as HC tanks. PE has even better resists when fully buffed, so please - think sometimes, it doesnt hurt
Plz, I play both a melee tank and HC tank. And i can give you some reasons why the MC has better resists then a HC tank.
Reason :
#1. A PoB melee tank with 145 agl hardly needs any ath, and will result in more resists.
#2. The melee tank PA has the exact same armor value as the HC tanks PA but doesn't chew off any ath, so theres no need to overspecc, and will result in higher resist.
#3. The fact that a melee tank can cap every weapon in his arsenal, and still have 114 FOR. Last time i checked, the HC tank can't cap his high TL weapons even at 0 FOR.
The melee tanks does not have BEST resist, but he sure as hell has better allround resist then a PE and HC tank.
melee tanks are balanced as long as there is somesort of para ingame
Ah and almost forgot:
REMOVE THAT STUPID PARA FROM THE GAME! or just at least tone down the power of melee shockers! Jesus Christ it has the power of holy para and unlimited ammo!!!
I dont use the shockers as a melee, but i know perfectly well that if i encounter someone who uses it i'm dead and there's no way i could do anything about it. With spells its a little more viable, i can pop a pill, try to run, attack the caster etc. But with a melee shocker u cannot do anything, it will glue you to the ground, u cannot move, u cannot dodge, u cannot attack, and if u take a pill - one sec later u'll got another freeze.
Shockers are overpowered as hell - that is a FACT. They should have the lowest freeze effect of all the weapons and spells since they have unlimited ammo... This is probably most important factor which makes Melee feels overpowered. If u cannot move, u cannot fight.
[edit- HC and MC tanks resists are exactly the same. I can CAP all except poison both on melee and HC tanks. The only difference is that MC tank has another 60-70 points to spare on poison, which is totally uselless as poison doesnt do anything above 60-70 POR]
Since you allways bring the tech level into it my libby is tl 91 its lowtech but whats so hightech about a bloody knife huh? :wtf: :mad:
Or a baseball bat a sword a stupid claw thing none are hightech in my eyes weapons of the stone age :rolleyes:
tomparadox
04-06-04, 22:41
If you think melee is not overpowered plz explain how its not cos the way I see again its the voice of those who speak out thats ruining this game. Its the voice of the noobs that can't fight Melee did not need that boost I had problems killing them before the patch and now they really do own me in 5 hits. I can't play me lowtech PE anymore every where I go there is a melee tank cos they know its overpowered so alot of them are lomming to melee to get easy kills.
5 hits? m8 your con sucks lol, my PE can take over 15 almost... thats if they hit me, you need to be good, they are hard, but not overpower. good way to kill melee, try to keep your distense ;) and shoot there feet, if you can, freez them then youll have a bit of a head start then shoot there feet...
edit:
Since you allways bring the tech level into it my libby is tl 91 its lowtech but whats so hightech about a bloody knife huh?
Or a baseball bat a sword a stupid claw thing none are hightech in my eyes weapons of the stone age
pistol PE or spy? a spy will get owned, Pistol PEs are a lot harder to fight with vs melee tanks cus IMO they are harder to aim with and go thru the clip in about 3 seconds and outa the hole clip most of the time half or 3/4 dosent hit.
I agree, give HCs an eye.
yea, HC needs an eye.
Ok tested it all in neofrag got a melee tank to keep hitting me till I die I did this with heal running tl 3 heal my own.
PoB or it might have been PoT 13 hits to kill me thats around the same as a CS
DG again with heal running 20 hits to kill me seems perfectly normal again
But I also did a range test got the tank to keep slashing while I walked forward till the hits registered and IMO its to long ranged the damage seems fine. It looked like a 5 whole meters between me and the tank seemed just a little bit too far but damage is around the same as a CS so it is not the damage that needs reducing its the range just by a few meters test and adjust till its right. Something I think KK don't really do much befor they release a patch as for me saying it only took 5 hits well I was a bit pissed off getting my arse kicked everytime sorry :(
tomparadox
05-06-04, 01:56
yea the rang is a bit to much, but i think that was made to help the point that if you could outrun a melee tank he couldent hit you worth a damn...
Even more, remember that there are always some differences in location between client and server which means sometimes when u fight someone he's right infront of you - at your screen, and 5 meters away from the server perspective. It happens alot when people are running away from melee (maybe its caused by fps differences on client and supposed another speed on server?) and u are faster than them and still cant hit them.
The only way is to run through the person, this way server corrects your actual position, but its kinda impossible if someone is running away... Thus if someone knows how to fight with melee he can kinda "eksploit" this making more and more (sometimes 10% sometimes 80%) hits arent registered (just by avoiding crossing each other and keeping distance all the time)
So i'd prefer rather lowering ROF than the range, as lowering range might nerf melee ultimately (if the range is to low, when person starts running away u cannot do anything about it, it would be be like stealth, 100% free way out of the dangerous situation). Maybe again, making the poison dmg as DOT, so it wouldnt cumulate from several hits. The real problem is, melee is little messed up, from the technical point of view, range is a problem, rof and dmg is a problem as well as it stacks and server updates several hits with delay making it invisible-lag dmg.
But i'm glad that someone finally cared enough to actually tried it out, compared the dmg and tested it out. Thanks.
One simple leg hit make melee defensless, same with all various versions of para, even the slightest one has the power of slowing down the melee thus lowering his offensive and defensive capabilities. Is it enough to compensate the advantage of high rof dmg? Maybe not, indeed.
One leg hit makes you slow down to a crawl? Sorry, but your resists are horrible. Even a Silent Hunter hit to the leg won't completely take down your run speed. I've tested. And don't you think other classes are screwed when hit with para also? Try Pistols.
The problem is that with that high RoF and random dmg, server update melee dmg with a little delay, sometimes adding few hits into one. So if i manage to caught u unprepared and swipe you few times before the fight begins nothing changes but after few seconds, when we start fighting (and another dmg is in queue) u suddenly loose 150 hp, then again after few seconds 50 hp and so on. This is very dangerous as u cannot act accordingly to the result of fight. And many people die because they are not expecting such immense dmg lag. It is pretty common with melee and making it very dangerous weapon.
Just try the new invisible trike dmg and u'll see how it affects the combat. Most people realise they are under attack when their health drop below 1/2 and its mostly too late to do anything. Same here is with melee.
So maybe indeed, melee is too powerful (but only a bit... :P), not in the terms of dmg or the TL, but rather due to the game mechanics and server lags it's causing. Making the poison dmg as DOT might help a little, not sure about lowering the rof but from the technical point of view its probably the only viable solution to avoid this.
Melee isn't the only thing that does this. All weapons take chunks off of life in PVP. The player sees his own health drop normally, but other people see it fall in one chunk of health every few seconds.
Now, about your favourite melee myths. How can u say that melee tanks has best resists? Melee has exactly the same resists as HC tanks. PE has even better resists when fully buffed, so please - think sometimes, it doesnt hurt
Melee has better resists because they need a lot less athletics to hit runspeed cap (soft or hard). Less athletics means better resists. Same reason why Lowtech PEs have better resists than Hightech PEs when they both have the exact same implant setup... overspeccing agil requires less athletics. Melee doesn't have a runspeed malus on their PA, so that's why I suggested it.
And if a tank has buffs, they have the best defense in the game barring PPUs and some types of hybrid monks. And if a tank is debuffed, he's not totally fucked.
And ffs, if u still think melee are superfast then just put some points in agility and shut up. Every single class in this bloody game can get to realistic speed cap, whether with drugs or not. It is around 90/80 (depends a little on the dex as wel) - and there is absolutely no difference if i have 150 agility and 130 athletics, i've tested it many many times. Even if u feel the difference on your screen, the real speed is almost the same. I was testing it with my 95/75 tank and the other melee drugged as hell with around 160/130. We ran from the crp to the OP and back. Yes he was faster, but he got to the OP 2 meters before me. Of course there is a difference with 70/70. Realistic cap is around 90 agility / 80 athletics (little less for spies, little more for monks). Got it?
I think you're assuming that "every single class in this bloody game" doesn't get slowed down by weapons. Melee, pistols and spells are the only weapons that don't slow you down. HC and rifles noticably slow down the player's speed. And because Tanks get 70 agil and 100 con, they can get a lot better run speed than any other class easier. Especially Melee. Sure you'll be as fast as other people with weapons down, but that doesn't matter at all.
Btw, 85/85 runspeed is not the realistic runspeed cap and it won't change depending on your class.
So please - think sometimes, it doesnt hurt
yea, HC needs an eye.
No they don't. That would jusst make them more powerful, and would't solve the melee issue.
No they don't. That would jusst make them more powerful, and would't solve the melee issue.
might help a bit? becuase then hc tanks can spec some force ress...
anyways i want back the old mad dmg the cs and maybe dev... now that made op fights fun... and im sure i played in more of those than 95% of you ppl..
then raise HL dmg a bit, like 10% and wham its all good...
give pes back stealth... raise rifle dmg 10%... hmmz
nah i might be full of sh*t..kinda like it atm...just tone down melee a little bit
Prodigious
05-06-04, 15:14
test before you post bullshit.
speed drugs on tanks, make them run fast on their own screen, and be slow as fuck on everyone elses screens.
well sorry im only trying to come up with ideas :rolleyes:
sorry for not having the time to lvl a tank and go test out how well redflash works on him :(
One leg hit makes you slow down to a crawl? Sorry, but your resists are horrible. Even a Silent Hunter hit to the leg won't completely take down your run speed. I've tested. And don't you think other classes are screwed when hit with para also? Try Pistols.
Sorry, but it's not true. Simply. One hit can make u crawl. Not every hit of course as it is kinda random. Chance is much higher when u're using burst weapons because if u hit once, u actually got 3-4 hits which are make you crawl indeed. Silent Hunter can broke your legs HORRIBLE, and i tested it, so sorry but IMO you're completely wrong.
Melee isn't the only thing that does this. All weapons take chunks off of life in PVP. The player sees his own health drop normally, but other people see it fall in one chunk of health every few seconds.
Again, i have a feeling u have no idea what are u talking about. It's not exactly the same as in other weapons. Melee rof is too high and sometimes it cumulates 5-6 hits into one - with a delay, so after few seconds u just got your health down to 1/2 or 1/3 even - in one second u're that low health, so for example u cannot run away even. And that is a problem. Real problem as it's simply surprise attack and u cannot act accordingly during fight because of this.
Melee has better resists because they need a lot less athletics to hit runspeed cap (soft or hard). Less athletics means better resists. Same reason why Lowtech PEs have better resists than Hightech PEs when they both have the exact same implant setup... overspeccing agil requires less athletics. Melee doesn't have a runspeed malus on their PA, so that's why I suggested it.
And if a tank has buffs, they have the best defense in the game barring PPUs and some types of hybrid monks. And if a tank is debuffed, he's not totally fucked.
Again, i said it before, but obviously u didnt catch it. Both HC and Melee can CAP all resists except poison. CAP. Which means it doesnt matter if u're resists are 0.001% worse than mine.
Runspeed isnt actually that important since Heavy weapon slow u down to a certain point - regardless of the amount of athl/agility u have. Do some tests with drugs and u'll see for yourself. With the good setup Tank can easily achieve decent amount of athletics. It doesnt really matter if u have 60 or 100 athletics, as it doesnt change anything.
I think you're assuming that "every single class in this bloody game" doesn't get slowed down by weapons. Melee, pistols and spells are the only weapons that don't slow you down. HC and rifles noticably slow down the player's speed. And because Tanks get 70 agil and 100 con, they can get a lot better run speed than any other class easier. Especially Melee. Sure you'll be as fast as other people with weapons down, but that doesn't matter at all.
Btw, 85/85 runspeed is not the realistic runspeed cap and it won't change depending on your class.
Again, you're wrong, and into this i'm 100% sure. Indeed, rifles and heavy weapons will slow u down, but like i said before it doesnt depends on the agility, because if u achieve the realistic cap (and yes, that is something like that and yes it change depending on the class) weapons will cut your maximum speed to the certain point. And there's nothing u can do about it. Remember, speed u see on the screen, isnt the same as on the server.
And really, please stop talking this nonsense. I've extensively tested the runspeed. As a PE, as a SPY and as a Tank. I've been testing it not only on my screen but in comparision to other's runners speed. Just go test it and prove me wrong.
So please - think sometimes, it doesnt hurt
yes, i do think, thank you for your care... O_o
I have had enough of arguing with melee users so I won't continue after this post people have given there views and the facts. There are alot of people who like me beleave that melee is stupidly overpowered but theres no point in arguing. I have tryed everything speed drugs full viperking and posion belt it don't do jack I have tryed moving around at a distance it don't matter they still win every time it is BS!
I'm not having fun anymore I'll still be paying but I think I'll go play a game without such a stubborn player base we had to put up with the devourer for months and still tankers say it was not overpowered :rolleyes:
Like i said, it's the ROF and the dmg cumulation which is causing the problem. Not the damage itself.
Lowering the ROF slightly and making the "3rd" dmg type DoT, should tune it down quite nicely. That's my opinion.
Yeah why is it when MC tanks get instant poison damage the world collapse.
When MC tanks are given instant poison damage it's more like "whatever, they been underpowered for a long time so they deserve it"
Even tho HC is so much harder to operate then a melee tank.
I think melee is overpowered. It was good last patch, I saw lots of melee tanks win fights. all that needed o be done was to slightly adjust melee rare tls, ex, pob tl 103 dg tl 106. As it stands now melee tanks are too good, and the usual noobs are all going melee.
Let me add something else. Guns were invented because they are much better then melee weapons, I dont care if its a damn game, someone with claw beating someone with a cannon that fires rapid fire super heated plasma is just dumb to me.
Clownst0pper
06-06-04, 01:00
@ Vet, u cant add role play to the game, or id suggest a bolt of lightning hitting your body from miles high at the speed of light would kill u instantly, yet my PE can take 10+ hits from a HL..
And thats just the point, most melee tanks ive encountered now are absolutely shite, they havnt a clue, just like the devourer tanks before them.
They jump on the bandwagon, get a weapon/class nerfed, and then jump onto the next one.
Like all other classes, if ur good, you will kill lots, no matter your weapon, it doesnt mean it needs nerfing, it just means u need practice combating against them.
Sorry, but it's not true. Simply. One hit can make u crawl. Not every hit of course as it is kinda random. Chance is much higher when u're using burst weapons because if u hit once, u actually got 3-4 hits which are make you crawl indeed. Silent Hunter can broke your legs HORRIBLE, and i tested it, so sorry but IMO you're completely wrong.
As I said, it doesn't slow me down to a crawl, so your resists are horrible. Or you're doing something very wrong or I'm doing something very right. So whatever.
Again, i have a feeling u have no idea what are u talking about. It's not exactly the same as in other weapons. Melee rof is too high and sometimes it cumulates 5-6 hits into one - with a delay, so after few seconds u just got your health down to 1/2 or 1/3 even - in one second u're that low health, so for example u cannot run away even. And that is a problem. Real problem as it's simply surprise attack and u cannot act accordingly during fight because of this
That's wrong... Maybe you're just lagging or getting low fps? Because if Melee just whacks away at me I see my health drop after every hit, not 1/2 my health at once. And what I was saying is that to an outside observer, it seems like their health drops in huge chunks when in actuality it is not. CSs do the same thing with capped RoF and hitting every hit.
Again, i said it before, but obviously u didnt catch it. Both HC and Melee can CAP all resists except poison. CAP. Which means it doesnt matter if u're resists are 0.001% worse than mine.
Runspeed isnt actually that important since Heavy weapon slow u down to a certain point - regardless of the amount of athl/agility u have. Do some tests with drugs and u'll see for yourself. With the good setup Tank can easily achieve decent amount of athletics. It doesnt really matter if u have 60 or 100 athletics, as it doesnt change anything.
Um... you can get 200 fire/energy/xray? Lol. Considering 174 is the highest possible XRR a Tank can get that's kind of funny. And with 200 fire/energy and 174 xrr, you'll have a whole 34 points left to put into athletics or health or poison. You'll get more if you base your setup off of PPU buffs or resist drugs, but those are silly. A Melee tank might be able to get away with a setup like that if you put all 34 points into health, but a HC tank would be a sitting duck, literally. And yes, overspeccing athletics/agil helps your runspeed if you're slowed because of weapons. I HAVE tested.
Again, you're wrong, and into this i'm 100% sure. Indeed, rifles and heavy weapons will slow u down, but like i said before it doesnt depends on the agility, because if u achieve the realistic cap (and yes, that is something like that and yes it change depending on the class) weapons will cut your maximum speed to the certain point. And there's nothing u can do about it. Remember, speed u see on the screen, isnt the same as on the server.
And really, please stop talking this nonsense. I've extensively tested the runspeed. As a PE, as a SPY and as a Tank. I've been testing it not only on my screen but in comparision to other's runners speed. Just go test it and prove me wrong.
I have tested it. I will prove you wrong. I run with people from GRs to ops (after synaptic btw) and I get there noticably sooner than people with 80/80 when I have 100/100.
Btw, I assume by "realistic" you mean the highest feasible runspeed before putting more points is less effective than before. There is no "real" runspeed cap that i know of.
QuantumDelta
06-06-04, 02:39
I see a lot of groundless crap being flung around.
btw, who's Koshinn?
Anyway;
Melee - Overpowered (statistically and actually depending on the situation).
Due to exploitable bugs, melee isn't always visibly overpowered and isn't.
Melee Tanks can be as good, defencively as a PE, simply because melee Tanks will have more health...
Melee tanks will NOT take less damage than a PE because shelter takes PEs down to an extra thresh hold, breaking a hard cap boundary that is present on unsheltered targets.
Melee Tanks will tend to be the fastest character on the server.
Defencively classes go like this;
PPU>PE=MC>=Spy>HC>APU
Offencively classes currently sit like this;
APU>MC>HC>Spy>PE>PPU.
Hybrids and individual sub-classes for the DEX Users are excluded for the purposes of this diagram :p
Diagram is for 1on1 based combat only.
I've been getting murdered by melee tanks lately, but that's what always happened if I let a melee get close to my monk...Haven't seen a difference, really.. :lol:
From everybody's experience, how do apus fair against melee tanks?
ooofff. I hit EXTREMELY hard sometimes, but if the melee gets colse to me, his resists win over my damage output every time.Usually the melee kills me, unless I can get in a good HL/FA or two before he's in range.
Hmmm I only have trouble with the really good Melee tanks on my hc tank. I dont think they are over powered hell im glad KK finally made them a viable option. Just learn to adjust your tactics peeps and spec a bit for poison. I have a melee tank on saturn hes alot of fun for a change vs hc no dam ammo to lug around etc. etc. keep em the way they are. Wanna complain about somethin shoot for apus ability to continue hitting you behind walls or somethine elses equally lame.......... melee is goooood
QuantumDelta
06-06-04, 13:03
Just learn to adjust your tactics peeps
You mean exploit a bug.
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I would just wish they fixed that bug then made melee less overpowered.
Heh, if I wanted to abuse that bug all day only my HC Tank would ever die to a MC Tank out of all my characters (APU/PPU/PC PE/RC PE/RC Spy/Droner Spy)
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