View Full Version : Troop Carriers
A while ago they reduced the amount of cash you could sell APC's for, because obviously people were getting rich kinda fast.
However now that the APC's take more parts to build, and the price of player sold C10's will stay around 50-70k the building of APCs is not really worth it.
If your making them from chems, this obviously is a painstaking process that maximises your profits, however, with these extra parts to build, the added time does not give you any added cash, especially if you are on a single char server where you don't have all the skills (research/construct/barter)
and have to pay for the services of other players.
So you might aswell just go caving for the same amount of time and get about the same amount of cash.
so just go caving!! well no, i think there should be a tradeskill route to making money
i'd like to see a small increase in APC selling price, not a huge amount, just enough to make a profit on those extra parts you have to make (or buy from players)
what say you?
Find a barter. Problem solved.
You could make so much money in so little time, wasnt even funny anymore. What do you think fucked up the economy? o_O
yeh obviously find a barter thats why i listed it above in the required tradeskills.
How long ago did they reduce the selling price? I havent seen any reduction with my barter with a while... been selling em for 120K (little higher than that I think) for quite a while now...
:confused:
hmmm just had a quick skim through 2003/2004 patch notes, didn't see it, but i remember it happening, must of been longer ago than i thought :D
What are the new TL's and recipes/pieces required? The old one was c10, C1,c2,c3,c4, right?
What are the new TL's and recipes/pieces required? The old one was c10, C1,c2,c3,c4, right?
for a troop carrier now it's like 1 2 3 4 8 10
recipe had been 1 2 3 10 for as long as I remember. They just nerfed it.
Glad to hear it was nerfed.
When there are people on Pluto advertising, "BUYING EVERYTHING! I DON'T CARE WHAT IT IS, I'LL BUY IT!" and people paying 75 million for MC5 chips... you know there's something wrong.
I can't even imagine how bad it is on Saturn, it being a 4-slot server and all. You poor Saturnians. :p
it sucks on saturn. ppl are resorting to trade with unresearched techs because if you have anything of real value, its priceless.
epic chips going for 2-5 mil
mc5 chips going fo 50+ mil
new melee rares going for 2 mil per part. its madness.
im glad they nerfed it. soon enough the economy will balance out and there wont be as many millionaires out there. it was getting rediculous
you simply cant buy mc5 chips for nc alone. its very difficult to buy a sf, marine or psi core.
money has lost its worth.
Just a quick post ....... well not so quick but I think it is necessary.
Having just come back to form a business on Pluto with an old friend , I find that the changes to the Troop Carrier are a little heavy handed.
Yeah sure you could make money before as a tradeskiller , but I wouldn't say it was much quicker ( if at all ) than farming rares for sale , farming DoY for junk , general levelling.
We used to put the boring work in as tradeskillers for a just reward , and it was like work , I may as well have been doing 15 hours in the bloody office I was having THAT much fun.
As it stands you are likely to get just over 110k per item when sold by a good barterer at an ASG. To buy the Gamonin alone you are looking at about 60 k and the Adiclovin is a further 6 k , the total if you were to buy all the chems is over 80k.
I worked out what it would be like making 50 of the bastards and it is comical......
You have to do the following if you are doing it mostly from scratch.
Research - you will end up making 1300 BPs.
Ingredients - You will buy your Gamonin and Adiclovin in all likelihood but you are still left requiring 2800 units of other chems which you will have to salvage ( oh god not more salvaging ... NO I'LL BE GOOD )
Construct - you will then build these 1300 BPs.
Sale - You will get 5.5 million or thereabouts of which 3.5 million is chem costs. So you have 2 million to spilt between a Research / Construct duo 1 million each ( maybe less if you have to pay a salvager )
Out of this each of them has to take out their personal costs in research substance and construction grease which is gonna be about 75k ( low est ).
So for hours and hours of mind numbingly tedious work processing 1300 items the tradeskiller get less than 1 million.
Is it worth it ?
Should the tradeskillers shelve their tools and head out into the wastes to hunt leaving all the combat junkies to use poor quality equipment ?
I think nerf was called for without much thought to the WORK it takes and backed up by a lot of people seeing others making money in a way they couldn't.
I missed all the debate that MUST have gone before , but I would like this to be re-assessed.
jeebus...1300 bps and items...for a 1 mill reward...
Fix please....
People can't make stupid ammounts of money macroing now....
WHATS THE PROBLEM? :)
(Don't say it can't be done b/c thaty or the other)
There are many ways to make money tradeskiling jsut b/c ur way of m,aking millions in hours is gone dont complain.. Ita great we might get a ecconomy back in the end.
It's even worse when you do it solo. Imagine making near 1500 bps, then building all the parts from chems. It is a full days work with little reward. Even less now.
People can't make stupid ammounts of money macroing now....
WHATS THE PROBLEM? :)
(Don't say it can't be done b/c thaty or the other)
There are many ways to make money tradeskiling jsut b/c ur way of m,aking millions in hours is gone dont complain.. Ita great we might get a ecconomy back in the end.
You don't change the Troop carrier set up because of a macro exploit , you sort the exploit out and ban those caught. Personally I dont use macroing although I do condone it as long as it is attended , unattended macroing is just the pits though.
Yes there are many ways to make money but this is the best of them from research and construction that many have found ......... it being the best and now being THIS bad....... doesn't that kinda imply that those that were worse are going to be further down that scale.
And tradeskillers making money is kinda the job description ........ you may as well take any weapon away from a tank which allows him to kill a WB in less than 10 minutes.
50 carriers - time to build 12 hours approx 7200 minutes (NC per minute < 275 ).
That would balance the tank and the tradeskiller then wouldn't it ;)
Also the whole economy thing is a chicken and an egg situation ......... a tradeskiller cannot go to MC5 and get a part and demand a ridiculous price they can only agree to pay it.
Who's fault is it then
Those that agree to pay because they have money ( not just traders )
or
those that are driven by greed who set the prices , usually combat characters initially ?
well it is a mmorpg after all just charge for const and research jobs
yes i agree charge for your services. If you want to build vehicles then I suggest either going the long route "or" actually hunting and collecting vehicle parts as you hunt. Of course if you choose to be a pure tradeskiller and not a combat tradeskiller than you dont' have that option so back to phase one ... Maybe do your work for vehicle parts. Oh! now there's something! A trade for your services which means just make sure you do lots of very high TL jobs and hope you get slots so you can request that sorta payment ;)
Maloch Octavia
09-06-04, 07:23
You can't fix a problem like this, because in a world of four slot servers, macro'ing and other workarounds, people will always rip the arse out of it.
You should never have had that option available to you in the first place, look how much it has damaged the game economy.
If you are a Tradeskiller, your profits should be made from Services to Clients, be they individual Runners or Clan jobs, it should not be made from you setting up your four Alts, or your four mates, to sit in a room and churn away for a day at an end to make several hundred million profit.
It's simply not on. You have found not an exploit, but a loophole, and that loophole has now been closed.
Good-fucking-riddance.
It's simply not on. You have found not an exploit, but a loophole, and that loophole has now been closed.
Good-fucking-riddance.
. . . and there was much rejoice
Thats just it, the return WASNT several hundred bloody million within a day , to make that money on carriers you would have to make at least 2000 of them in a day ............ in which world is that achievable. Some people just blow things out of proportion so they can cause a fuss , they throw figures around like rice at a wedding and those who don't know enough just join the bandwagon and vote for the change.
Like I said before, every PvPer is crying like a baby for balance across the classes in combat ............. as soon as they find out traders are making money without having weapon skills they throw a bloody fit.
I call for balance in everything ................ reduce weapon damage by 80 % so that combat characters kill mobs slower and have an NC per minute value the same as tradeskillers. Lets see how that would be received ;)
Well it wouldn't would it , because you guys want quick fun and a quick return , that goes for traders as well.
Did the devs actually look at what they were doing properly and test it, doubling the time , halving the profit just blows donkey.
Personally I wish weaponparts and vehicle parts weren't sold in stores at all . . . not able to bp, Wish they'd bring back the mining tool ... . have people with recycle skill go out and have to mine areas to gather certain materials they use in a recycle type recipe and create weapon parts .. same for the vehilce parts.
So getting a vehicle or weapon part off a mob is a cool thing. Then a market would open up for recyclers selling off weaponparts .. although I guess that can work sorta now with them able to take two weapon parts and merg them to the next one up although that's sorta . . . :rolleyes:
So I'm the only one still making money off troopies?
So I'm the only one still making money off troopies?
it's the if i'm not making loads then it's not worth it frame of mind .. especially if you were spoiled by it before the change.
The thing is, now you don't build them from chems anymore, you just collect parts as you hunt and then build them.
You can make money from troop carriers yes, but at a vastly lower return. And to make building them from scratch no longer viable is the most asinine decision yet. ( Although technically it is the requirement of 21 Gamonin for each carrier that tips it over ).
Before you got a good return for the work needed , now its just not ......... its a completely bollox return for the work needed. And without macroing it is utter shite , so am I going to be forced to hunt for a macroing tool for NC.
No because I will not exploit, and it would be under the current rules.
If someone is happy manually ressing / constructing for a whole day ( and has that much RL time to waste ) for 2 million NC then all the power to them. Just don't send KK your bill for RSI treatment because you'll be lucky to get 100 000 NC back.
Quick question for those cavers out their : What is the average loot reward for a full day in the Chaos caves when teamed fully ?
I suppose I will have to double my prices and give all the non-tradeskillers something to spend their money on :p
The thing is, now you don't build them from chems anymore, you just collect parts as you hunt and then build them.
Been doing that since i started the current character. More profit in it.
And oh yeah, as for going hunting; i can pick up several 100K+ rareparts each day, makeing a pile of cash that i can buy at least 2 lvl 3 appartments with - EVERY DAY. I can also stand in plaza giving out pokes earning millions, question: how fun is that?. Last night i got an average large ressjob, made 2 mil out of it. Some other days i make NEGATIVE profit.
As for makeing money, hunting beats everything, you dont exactly risk your life when you equip the TL 150 construction tool.
that's the thing you SHOULD charge .. .all tradeskillers should charge it's the one that say .. tip only if you want to .. or free .. that sorta make tradeskilling not as good a money thing as it should be. Well yea higher levels when you do rares and you get that person that pays alot for one . but .. ah well . . bleh . . n/m
I have a sheet worked out for weapons / mods / armour etc that works on the price of the components and then you can add on your mark up for the job itself.
I think standardised pricing will definitely be the way forward for the business anyway.
Troop carriers wont be cheap to buy thats for certain :D
Oh well , done my duty ......... got some discussion out of it.
Happy constructing
I have a sheet worked out for weapons / mods / armour etc that works on the price of the components and then you can add on your mark up for the job itself.
I think standardised pricing will definitely be the way forward for the business anyway.
Troop carriers wont be cheap to buy thats for certain :D
Oh well , done my duty ......... got some discussion out of it.
Happy constructingThat's good, every other MMO I played basically has it's tradeskillers use such systems.
Basically, you pay material costs, as well as an extra service cost, generally service cost is dependant on difficulty of item being made. You can give a discount for the material costs if someone brings some (or all) of the necesarry materials.
Some of them even charge for fails in case the costs of production are really high, though you generally get a discount when doing so, don't think we can get that working in Neocron though, as there is no way of seeing whether or not someone really failed.
Disturbed021
09-06-04, 18:08
It's even worse when you do it solo. Imagine making near 1500 bps, then building all the parts from chems. It is a full days work with little reward. Even less now.
B4 this last patch with a barterer;
Res Vhc compparts 8, 9, & 10x2.
Build from Chems.
Res Vhc Comp 10.
Build from the built 8, 9, 10x2 and bought the other compparts.
Res Troop carrier.
Build from built Comp 10 and bought the other Comps.
Ressing and building 6 bps nets 70k per key.
Build 249 (thats one stack) in about 2 days total time = 17,430,000 profit.
And with macros it takes little to no actually work.
Yeah, please bring back the old formulas and make money even more worthless :rolleyes:
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