View Full Version : The end of the individual?
Neocron is not like other MMOs and that is one of the main reasons I play it.
In most of the major MMOs, mob hunting is emphasized over PvP and as a result the game has more depth in that area. In Neocron, mob hunting—while entertaining—is predominantly a stepping stone to the end game.
In most other MMOs, leveling is a much longer process. In Neocron, a dedicated player can have a PvP character ready in as little as a week.
Yet another way that Neocron is different from other MMOs is that it allows you to play as an individual. Well, it used to.
I played predominantly on Pluto but moved to Saturn a few months ago for all the same reasons a lot of other people did. I went there with a friend of mine. We have had it with clans and just wanted to play the game for fun as individuals. We leveled several characters each, hunted like crazy, and did a bunch of epics as well. We now have pretty much everything we need.
Then, the mother of all patches arrived and we began to explore. And now for my 2 complaints…MC5 and the 3rd level of the DoY tunnels. We’ve spent quite a bit of time in these 2 areas over the last few days and we both feel disheartened. I am honestly on the verge of canceling my 4 accounts.
If Neocron is changing into an EQ styled game that REQUIRES large groups to hunt for the high-end items then tell me now. While everyone knows that MC5 chips, illegal slot enhancers, and ultimas are not REQUIRED they are certainly nice items that everyone should have a chance to acquire.
The bottom line is this: MC5 and the 3rd level of the DoY tunnels are poorly conceived.
Let me explain.
Obtaining a Filter Heart 2 is very difficult. It is difficult because it is rare and requires a lot of hard work hunting to find one. I can accept that type of work. It allows individuals to participate.
Obtaining a good rare weapon is also very difficult. It requires a great deal of hunting and trading to collect all of the parts and then you can still get zero slots. I can accept that type of work. It allows individuals to participate.
Obtaining MC5 parts, illegal slot enhancers, and ultima mods is also very difficult but only because it is designed in such a way as to practically require large teams.
Mind you, my friend and I soloed both places and got a few of each of these items but found it unreasonably difficult for 2 people.
This is what I suggest. Tone down the difficulty of the 3rd level of the DoY tunnels but also reduce the likelihood of an ultima mod or illegal slot enhancer dropping. This parallels the FH2 process. Both would require an incredible amount of work, are valuable and rare, but would not force people into large teams. Let Neocron continue to be a game where 2 or 3 friends can get together and play without being forced to join a large clan.
MC5 was never easy prior to the patch yet it was very doable for 2-3 people. All 3 building in the MC5 area need to have a Base Commander, the back room needs to return, and there should only be one Base Commander and 3 guards per room. The Base Commander should also return to his old loot style. It was exciting not knowing what he would drop. I have gone 11 kills in-a-row without a single part and I have found 3 from one kill. You have totally wiped out all the fun of looting him now.
By the way, the elimination of the back room was 100% redundant. The removal of the 2 guards from the front door has simply moved the safe area to the top of the ramp. I watched an APU and PPU team play the same old zoning game today with incredible efficiency. I am not advocating that the guards be put back at the front doors but you simply cannot have a zone point right next to the commander and his flunkies. The room needs to be redesigned to solve this problem.
MMOs naturally evolve over time. I have enjoyed Neocron for a long time and wish to continue doing so. But I want to play it my way. If KK intends to force us into a certain style of play then I am afraid the game is going to lose interest for me, and that makes me sad.
Ray
You think about cancelling your accounts because we have two or three locations where you have to group up and can't solo? Sorry but I cannot comprehend this in any way. I think we are offering enough locations that do not need a full group to engage. I remember lots of players crying for hard mob locations you can only handle with a group, now you have it and it's wrong again. *shakeshishead*
Ray go back to sleep.
The game is evolving to a far more team based game sure, it still has plenty of room for the little guy, since the mob resists we're implemented, and the mob ai was sorted it's more difficult, but thats a good thing, we should not be able to go mindlessly killing things, things wich are higher rank than us, even a warbot now causes some people problems, learn to adapt.
cancelling accounts is not a way to get things sorted, or noted is it, it's just throwing a childish fit.
Well doy tunnels and the mc5 area reqires 2 ppl, a ppu and a apu or a tank, if you want to eliminate a large group that isnt nessecary if you have a little time.
But it's still 3 places in the game that actually requires you to have a "team" or read a ppu if you count Y-reps. It's not that bad, I heavent played anarchy online and so on but it seems like pretty much whatever needs a team of ppl to be able to do anything atall, and neocron isnt like that at all thanks for that.
But it's still stuff that a player would like to have as you said. You can do the get lots of money and buy whatever mc5 part you want, and buy the slotenhancers and ultimas off players instead, trade or whatever. Ultimas and slotenhancers wont go for 10 million a piece cause they aint rare. Mc5 will probably cost you some but you can be your induvidual and go buy them.
SnowCrash....
An individual can solo a 120/120 chaser and get anywhere from zero to 3 tech parts. If there was an uber 240/240 fire monster at the end of some cool cavern that required large teams and 30 minutes to kill and which dropped anywhere from 5 -15 tech parts then that would be fun. The key here is that the loot is the SAME from both mobs but one requires more work and has a greater reward. Large clans would kill this mob 3-4 times and come away with 30+ techs while an individual can also go solo hunting and collect 30+ techs. Variety. Choice.
The problem with MC5 and the 3rd level of the tunnels is that they drop UNIQUE loot—EQ style. There is no need to digress into a debate over whether these unique items are required for PvP. The fact is they help. If you don’t want to play in large teams then you simply are locked out of this part of the game. I want the opportunity to play the game my way without being forced to team up the way that EQ forces you.
When the glass was removed from MC5 it was much harder. You could spend an hour there and walk away with only 2-3 parts, but it was possible to do it with only 2 people.
The main reason I gave up on Pluto was not the population count. It was that you simply could not participate in OP wars unless you were in one of maybe 5 major clans. This is why the empire vs. empire system is the feature I look forward to the most in BDoY. Neocron has the best PvP by far of any MMO and I hate being locked out of it because I don’t want to join a clan. On Saturn, the faction channel is very active. They are always asking for help and nobody cares whether you are in a big clan, a small clan, or unclanned. Everyone works together to help the faction. This is what I look forward to on Pluto when anyone can show up to support their empire without clan membership as a requirement.
KK seems to be focusing too much on MC5 as if it was the holy grail. I cannot emphasize enough how fabulous the PvP is in Neocron. This is what you need to concentrate on. The OP system needs a complete overhaul. The faction and soul light system needs a complete overhaul. Don’t make it so difficult for people to get their items—including MC5 chips—because items and leveling in Neocron are simply chores you want to get through so that the real fun can begin.
I don't get the point with beeing locked out. You always have the possibility to buy these unique items from other players. Or you just hire a small group of runners (the mercs nearly do everything for moneh :wtf: hehe) that assist you and you buddy with engaging MC5 or the lowest Tunnel levels. Hiring other runners to assist you doesn't necessarily mean for you to join a clan or a fixed group and it also supports RP alot and involves others which should improve the fun for everyone very much.
Basically, you cannot make ALL content available to the single runner. This would lead to imbalance and negate the existence of "really rare" items.
I mean what would happen if you put ultimas in a single 120/120 mob somewhere? Ultimas would be everywhere, even noobs would have them.
This is not how it's supposed to be.
SnowCrash....
... The OP system needs a complete overhaul. The faction and soul light system needs a complete overhaul....
There will be a major overhaul of these features with BDoY but I cannot give you any details yet.
The game is evolving to a far more team based game sure...Precisely my point. The game is evolving towards the more traditional big teams required for the best loot style that nearly all other MMOs use. I don't like that. It is simply my opinion and I am stating it. I always liked how Neocron was different in this regard.
I know very few people that hunt Y-Reps on a regular basis. Why? Because they are hard and drop nothing that a much easier mob can't drop.
I think the FH2 is one of the most interesting items in the game. It is not much better than a FH1 but it is truly rare. No matter how many Terror Raptors or Leapers I come across I just have to stop and kill it because you just never know. Every single time I loot one I am excited.
I think MC5 parts should have been added to the loot of Y-Reps and even Hoverbombers. Parts or even whole chips should drop with the rarity of FH2s. There are lots of zones with these types of mobs and that would be indeed be some fun hunting rather than forcing the entire server to fight over the tiny hell room.
I wouldnt want to be able to solo it...
Then wheres the fun?
If you want to solo everything, go play Baldurs Gate..
Not tryin to have any pun here, but cmon, this is a MMORPG, and 2 things in the whole goddamn game that require a team, isnt unreasonable.
If you could solo it, how many people would have MC5 chips?
I dont have one myself, but I look forward to my clan and I to go to MC5.
I don't get the point with beeing locked out. You always have the possibility to buy these unique items from other players.No, you don't. The least expensive SA I know about went for 24 million NC on Pluto. The most a single person can have in NC is 20 million. Exactly how should a person with one account and no clan "buy" an MC5 CPU?
I don't own any MC5 parts or CPUs. I'd love to have all of them just as part of my collection, but I cannot buy them using a single account and I'm not about to trust anyone to help me get one via escrow.
That I know of, only people who obtained parts pre-MC5-lockdown or those who are part of strong clans or are affiliated/friends with strong clans have MC5 CPUs.
i think one of the reasons for playin an online game is to meet people, go hunt with them. try it
No, you don't. The least expensive SA I know about went for 24 million NC on Pluto. The most a single person can have in NC is 20 million. Exactly how should a person with one account and no clan "buy" an MC5 CPU?
I don't own any MC5 parts or CPUs. I'd love to have all of them just as part of my collection, but I cannot buy them using a single account and I'm not about to trust anyone to help me get one via escrow.
That I know of, only people who obtained parts pre-MC5-lockdown or those who are part of strong clans or are affiliated/friends with strong clans have MC5 CPUs.
There is such a thing as trading items. Buying does not automattically have to imply cash.
I thought the concept of Massively Multiplayer was that your playing with and against otherplayers.
If you want to do everything on your own then go play a co-op lan game.
This is a new challenge added to the game that forces people to get organised and work together. People have wanted it for ages.
If you don't like it you don't have to hunt there, hunt somewhere else and buy the stuff from other players.
KK have given you the option to hunt there. Its your choice.
Also you say you and your friend hunt together. If you have the right chars, the pair of you could do the DoY tunnels and MC5 without anyone else. Other people do.
No, you don't. The least expensive SA I know about went for 24 million NC on Pluto. The most a single person can have in NC is 20 million. Exactly how should a person with one account and no clan "buy" an MC5 CPU?
You create a clan for yourself and use that bank account, then you also put money into the stock market (if you don't mind loosing it). The only problem is handing over the 20 million to the other character.
i agree entirely with Raybobs post. but i think most people missed his point, including Snowcrash, and clearly also KK. what he's saying is that there is no need for certain items to be restricted to ONLY teams. yes, it SHOULD be the case that there are areas where only teams can go - yes snowcrash, this has been asked for, an no one is complaining that they exist - but the items found there should also necessarily exist ELSEWHERE in the game where solo hunters can find them too.
the balance should simply be that where team caves have team-sized rewards (i.e. frequent drops of these items), these same items would be much harder to find in non-team situations. either solo-able caves where the drops are very rare, but still useful XP. or very small-chance drops from regular mobs (if you ever get the drop-rate for strange books right, then you could have stuff drop like this).
teams can go to a cave and get good drops, individuals can then either buy those items from the teams, hire a team of their own, or go out and scratch around the wastes in the hopes of finding same.
everything in the game is heading to a more and more team based game, sooner or later its gonna be that everything is gonna be team based, when that happens you can kiss my ass good bye.
i played this cos it was fun, you could do stuff on your own, or team with other players, both worked well.
now its more and more like you gotta have a ppu on your ass.
i play this game to pvp/pk(once irecap my char) more and more the game is getting frustrating to me.
meh other people like it as its going, so i would be one of a few so wouldnt be missed(certainly not as a killer) at end of day.
i just hope you all enjoy your enforced team play that you seemed to want
There is such a thing as trading items. Buying does not automattically have to imply cash.There is nothing worth an MC5 or close to, with the possible exception of either illegal items or items which are worth far more than an MC5 CPU (like the Dildo of Maven).
You create a clan for yourselfI won't do that. LE.
The only problem is handing over the 20 million to the other character.Bingo.
Look, I don't have a problem with MC5 CPUs requiring teams/clans to obtain, but don't even try to feed me a line about being able to buy them. A person cannot buy an MC5 in a straight exchange of cash due to arbitrary limits imposed by KK because they couldn't solve the duping problem.
I won't do that. LE.
Then what you could do is find a clan you trust to act as bankers for you. Amazing as it may sound some clans do this. Off the top of my head Phoenix do something along these lines.
Bingo.
Only a minor problem. You can get an ingame escrow player if your that worried. The game isn't a single player game (even though some play it that way)
A person cannot buy an MC5 in a straight exchange of cash due to arbitrary limits imposed by KK because they couldn't solve the duping problem.
My brother got my MC5 by buying it in cash. He didn't have any problem. He just used people he trusted.
Spikadelia
02-06-04, 12:22
The key point is the UNIQUE nature of the loot as has been pointed out.
Large teams should be rewarded in the tunnels because of the challenge offered but that the item drops should occur elsewhere in NC at a reduced frequency.
I tend to play solo as a rarehunter/droner because of my work schedule with unsociable hours. I greatly enjoy the game but the thought that I can no longer hunt for Ultimas/slotenhancers is a frustration, although hardly terminal.
One question to you all who've ventured into the tunnels is......... anyone seen a spot to hide a meatsack? If the entrance to the tunnels is as crowded with Mobs as I've heard I guess not.
Snowcrash, great work on the patch. Keep the tunnels badass but let the parts drop at a lower rate in other locations for those without the resources of huge teams.
:)
Only a minor problem. You can get an ingame escrow player if your that worried. There's no reason I should have to rely on people to get around a fundamental problem with the server's tracking of money and items. I'll wait until KK fixes it.
One question to you all who've ventured into the tunnels is.I'll let you know once I can get into the tunnels without crashing. I've crashed/had zoning problems more with the latest patch than ever before. I guess it's my fault I didn't use an Obliterator to get around the 30 second-between-login restriction introduced.
Original monk
02-06-04, 12:25
i shouldnt be the one posting this picture cause in a way i think raybob is right, i played this game a ver long time by myself, as an individual ...
now i have a nice clan and all but still i loved the way you could still acomplish things as an individual ... for me the first big hybridnerf was the start of saying: bye bye to individuality ... togheter with the PA's that make everyone look the same ... wich only enhaced this feeling :/
but for example the hilevel caves ... they are supposed to be hard yeah ... the harder the better, so dont nerf em :)
think the problem gonna be the veery laarge clans camping in there ... for about 24/24 ... so indeed, individuals or small teams dont stand a chance ... unless you think its worth dieing over and over for the good cause and arent afraid to wack some peeps in there :) like me :P
attitude of them clans is: where here with more so this is OUR territory :)
i say: well fuck that !
but back to the topic: i got a cartoon here that i posted before on these forums, but it really fits into this thread :P (altough i shouldnt be the one posting as i said, cause i know what raybob means and i pitty that situation also :/ altough i think mc5 and the 3rd level caves can stay that hard .. even made a bit harder)
http://users.pandora.be/original/loot.jpg
kindly borrowed of the extra-life website.
Basically, you cannot make ALL content available to the single runner. This would lead to imbalance and negate the existence of "really rare" items...This is not how it's supposed to be.Says who? The focus of games like Diablo 2 is items. If you didn't have the best gear you simply could not win. Neocron is about SKILL SKILL SKILL. Acquiring items should be difficult but not overly so. After a few months of hard work everyone should have essentially the same gear. Now the fun begins. Now skill determines the outcome and not equipment.
i agree entirely with Raybobs post. but i think most people missed his point, including Snowcrash, and clearly also KK. what he's saying is that there is no need for certain items to be restricted to ONLY teams. yes, it SHOULD be the case that there are areas where only teams can go - yes snowcrash, this has been asked for, an no one is complaining that they exist - but the items found there should also necessarily exist ELSEWHERE in the game where solo hunters can find them too.
the balance should simply be that where team caves have team-sized rewards (i.e. frequent drops of these items), these same items would be much harder to find in non-team situations. either solo-able caves where the drops are very rare, but still useful XP. or very small-chance drops from regular mobs (if you ever get the drop-rate for strange books right, then you could have stuff drop like this).
teams can go to a cave and get good drops, individuals can then either buy those items from the teams, hire a team of their own, or go out and scratch around the wastes in the hopes of finding same.Exactly! Exactly! Exactly!
everything in the game is heading to a more and more team based game, sooner or later its gonna be that everything is gonna be team based, when that happens you can kiss my ass good bye.
i played this cos it was fun, you could do stuff on your own, or team with other players, both worked well.Exactly how I feel. Neocron's history is filled with famous 2-3 person PKing teams of incredible skill. It is also filled with many successful and powerful clans. Both enrich the game. You can play the game your way and skill prevails. When you make certain items attainable only by large groups you unbalance the game. You limit your clientele to those that enjoy grouping. You hurt the game.
I regrouped my thoughts.
Came to the conclusion that all items should be available to a solo hunter, but the chance of getting it would be much lower than if you were in a team.
Clownst0pper
02-06-04, 12:41
I fuckin love that this game is heading towards team based activities, it gives me the chance to have fun with my clan, and not be a "loner" when im out in the wastes.
There is nothing like a good mc5 team on team speak, working together to achieve a single goal.
Its highly satisfying.
As for soloing, well. If thats your thing, you might as well go and play tomb raider.
There is nothing worth an MC5 or close to, with the possible exception of either illegal items or items which are worth far more than an MC5 CPU (like the Dildo of Maven).I won't do that. LE.Bingo.
Look, I don't have a problem with MC5 CPUs requiring teams/clans to obtain, but don't even try to feed me a line about being able to buy them. A person cannot buy an MC5 in a straight exchange of cash due to arbitrary limits imposed by KK because they couldn't solve the duping problem.
Oh come now .. if the cash cap was alot higher like in beta umm i think it was over 2billion nc . . .people would make things cost a hell of alot more and make mc5 chips cost 3billion or some stupidly high price over the cap. That's just the way it goes. they think rare .. it's so rare it goes over your money cap. It's players that put these high prices on them to imply how rare they are.
Well, the idea of letting mc5 parts and ultimas drop from "soloable" mobs could work, but then it would have to be extreemly rare that they do. Otherwise the whole group up thing will get ruined.
I like to solo aswell so I wont mind, it's should be fun for the individual aswell as for a big team. But the big team should have the advantage of better drops from the teambased locations, actually alot better chance. The fh2 drop rate idea isnt that bad except maby it shouldn't be that rare :) I've played since september (I think) 2002 and I have never seen a filter heart 2 drop for me ever :) But somewhere arround that drop rate.
I guess I missunderstood what he meant in general about the thread, though he ment places like mc5 shouldn't be cause you need a team and thats stupid.
There's no reason I should have to rely on people to get around a fundamental problem with the server's tracking of money and items.
You have an option open to you. It is your choice not to use it, however it does build good connections between people. Your choice to play this game like it is a single player game, so it is yourself who is putting your runner at a disadvantage.
I fuckin love that this game is heading towards team based activities, it gives me the chance to have fun with my clan, and not be a "loner" when im out in the wastes.
There is nothing like a good mc5 team on team speak, working together to achieve a single goal.
Its highly satisfying.
As for soloing, well. If thats your thing, you might as well go and play tomb raider.maybe unlike you i dont like things being enforced on me.
if i want to hunt solo i should be able to, if i decided ya i want to hunt with some mates, then great i can do.
if i want to go solo pking i should be able to, or if i want to team with Vet or whoever else is out pking the ya thats a option.
i dont care for being told to have to team.
and i certainly dont want to play tomb raider :wtf:
Q`alooaith
02-06-04, 13:08
So let me see....
You like to go around and just hunt with your mate..
Your able to do the hardest area's together, the area's where larger team's have it easyer, but it's very fvery hard..
I don't see any problem..
So let me see....
You like to go around and just hunt with your mate..
Your able to do the hardest area's together, the area's where larger team's have it easyer, but it's very fvery hard..
I don't see any problem..the point is you shouldnt have to team
Q`alooaith
02-06-04, 13:16
the point is you shouldnt have to team
No ezza, this is a MMOG, the point is you should have to team if you want to do the hardest of the hard endgame parts..
Team's have had the short end for so long, now they've got an area where they can do far better than soloist's and the soloist's want it changed so they can do it more easly..
"You'll never die alone!"
Can anyone tell me where that quote is from?
This is a team game, it's not hard to find people to team with for a short time, you don't have to clan, you just have to be willing to work with other's for a common goal..
Q`alooaith
02-06-04, 13:31
[ edited ]
Because you know your fighting a losing cause?
Greyhand
Q`alooaith
Ezza, what have you aganist having to team to do the hardest mob's?
Can't you see it is good for the game to get out of this solo rut people have gotten into...
Your not forced to team, you could do these hard area's alone if you took your time and worked hard at it, being solo should make PvM harder.
It's simple, neocron is a pvp MMO first and foremostly.
I would prefer if it wasnt, BUT IT IS.
MC5 chips help in PVP, quite a lot.
FH 2 help in PVP a lot.
As does having ultimated weapons, 4 slot spells etc etc.
Requiring 4 or 5 people camping a small room for 30 hours for each to get 1 chip is bullshit.
It's fun to play alone, it's even possible to PVP alone, but not when you're outnumbered with them having better equipment.
Why are MC5 chips ONLY available in a place where you cant bring spies and PE's?
Why dont they add mc5 chips into the normal rarepool?(there's something like 300 different parts already, which would mean camping mc5 would still be easier - but it gives others a chance).
Don't come and play FFXI heh
From lv 10 onwards you pretty much need a party, you can solo but meh its hard, i think this game now i used to agree with things like its to hard but as i look back on it i think it's the opposite the games to easy.
Mobs are silly, the mack daddeh 120's shouldn't be soloable, there's ffxi mobs that require alliances of at least 30 capped chars now i know nc dosent have that many but comon? make em need say at least 7/8 peeps and make them have a couple of attacks to suprise you out instead of the same attack over and over.
Another thing is the best items should be so scarce its unreal, i used to be against this in the past but i think they should be harder to get, like the mob only spawns every so often or when certain conditions are met and even then his droprate may suck. FFXI you can spend weeks killing one Named mob for a rare he can take a few hours to spawn you kill him and guess what no drop... another 2/3/4 odd hours camping.
But all in all it needs to be way harder than it is, death should be harsh, items should be hard to find, things shouldnt be readily available like drugs etc and if they are they should be costly making tradeskillers have reasons for doing things.
The classes also need work, like making them NEED each other, in ff we have the Black Mage, he deals massive damage, yet if a mob agros him you've got about 20 seconds to take the agro or he dies, same applies to the white mage, yes he heals raises, gives buffs but he's mincemeat without warriors and similar types who in turn need the whms/blms/rdms to heal keep them alive and dish out that maximum damage while they take hate and dish out some.
I use ffxi as a comparison cuz its a heavy pvm game and its massive pop must think somethings right with the pvm, the pvp is coming along nicely so you do work for pvp now and play a ut style battle with some nice teams.
Plus it's the onlything i played really apar tfrom nc and swg/
Q`alooaith
02-06-04, 13:43
what make's you say that you can't take spy's and PE's into MC5?
Playing alone should be harder than playing with a team..
It's that simple.
what make's you say that you can't take spy's and PE's into MC5?Well, taken a /64 pistol spy into mc5....
Died, died again, again and again.
Got 1 or 2 bursts off per death.
PE was useless, no AOE and not great defence.
What makes you say they can be taken?
Playing alone should be harder than playing with a team..
It's that simple.Harder, not impossible.
Original monk
02-06-04, 14:09
I fuckin love that this game is heading towards team based activities, it gives me the chance to have fun with my clan, and not be a "loner" when im out in the wastes.
There is nothing like a good mc5 team on team speak, working together to achieve a single goal.
Its highly satisfying.
As for soloing, well. If thats your thing, you might as well go and play tomb raider.
i wanted to give some remarks on this post but i yust noticed that ezza allready did so :)
and i agree with him ... maybe youre one of them that likes to be pushed into a certain direction so you only have to accept the team [x] yes [ ] no -option but unlike you there are other people that like to have a carte blanche when it comes to gaming/playing there game ... staying within the gamerules ffcourse ..
so no: ya dont HAVE to team/clan up to play a game like this decently, thats the fun of neocron :) ya can do what ya like ... without some smartasses telling you how you should do everything ...
prefab, premolded: YACK !
2 bad there are alot of people yust following the mainstream and doing what everyone does wich doesnt make the game more intresting ffcourse ... a sadfull proof of this is the use of the cookiecutter setups, the classhopping and the factionhopping ... (i even leave the skillmanagers out of this)
ffcourse when ya wonna do some serieus caving (for example in mc5) then its normal that ya need to team ... atleast with 2 lol :) (any class + ppu)
but for 99% of the rest ya can do what ya want :) thats the joy of neocron
when everything would be easy prefabed for us then there wouldnt be no initiatives nomore that make the game that bit more intresting :)
for example, naimex's idea about moving to crest village with her gang (mkV and napalm etc) ... these are idea's that only exist cause people where thinking out of the "regular" line's ... luckely
the goal defeats the purpose in this game it seems:
its not: you have to team cause its an MMORPG, no,
its more like: you can team if you like, cause its an MMORPG ...
edit: "Im a poor and lonesome cowboy, i am faaar away from home" ;)
Because you know your fighting a losing cause?
Greyhand
Q`alooaith
Ezza, what have you aganist having to team to do the hardest mob's?
Can't you see it is good for the game to get out of this solo rut people have gotten into...
Your not forced to team, you could do these hard area's alone if you took your time and worked hard at it, being solo should make PvM harder.
did you read what hte fuck i put?
i dont have anything against teaming i have a problem with it being forced on me.
i should have a choice, not team or fuck off which its becoming.
but hey if you want that its cool, ill just move on
I agree with ezza, orig and Raybob (and whoever else was against enforced teaming).
I always solo. To me PvM is not the main focus of the game, but when I do actually participate in PvP (the main focus of the game) then its always with other people. Imo, the MM part of NC should be the PvP or if you want it the PvM.
Aziraphale
02-06-04, 14:21
but hey if you want that its cool, ill just move on
Dont really want to get involved here but...
Who's forcing you to team? You don't HAVE to use these tunnels, if you want the parts so bad then just buy them from other players.
And it IS possible to solo these tunnels, just very slowly, not easily, and not very efficiently.
If my rifle spy can kill off the first few mobs in the tunnels by itself then I'm sure your ubaaahh near capped tank sure as hell can.
Dont really want to get involved here but...
Who's forcing you to team? You don't HAVE to use these tunnels, if you want the parts so bad then just buy them from other players.
And it IS possible to solo these tunnels, just very slowly, not easily, and not very efficiently.
If my rifle spy can kill off the first few mobs in the tunnels by itself then I'm sure your ubaaahh near capped tank sure as hell can.
at ya, but more and more as times gone on, the bit on the back of the box that said you can solo or team is becoming more and more of just team
I just dont get this thread. There is nothing in this game except mc5 or doy tunnels that are remotely challenging. Except those two you dont need a team for anything. You have a choice you can make. Join a clan or a group and go hunting, trade or buy for these parts. And please, stop using the term that you are"forced" to do something. It sounds like some of you feel that you have been greatly wronged by KK because you cant do all you want on your own.
Only thing I have a problem with Neocron endgame and the dungeons in particular is that it isnt very FPS-like.
Edit: some spelling mistakes and left out words
I just dont get this thread. There is nothing in this game except mc5 or doy tunnels that are remotely challenging. Except those two you dont need a team for anything. You have a choice you can make. Join a clan or a group and go hunting, trade or buy for these parts. And please, stop using the term that you are"forced" to do something. It sounds like some of you feel that you have been greatly wronged by KK because you cant do all you want on your own.
Only thing I have a problem with Neocron endgame and the dungeons in particular is that it isnt very FPS-like.
Edit: some spelling mistakes and left out wordsSolo'ing graves, swamp caves and crystal caves as Spy = challenging.
Q`alooaith
02-06-04, 14:36
Your not forced to team though..
You don't need a MC5 chip, or if you realy feel you badly wnat one you can buy it..
Your not forced to do high end PvM..
Take a step back, your asking to take away somthing for people who like to team because you like to solo..
what's fair in that?
Two places where teaming is needed, two and your wailing like children because you don't want to be team ever..
Solo'ing graves, swamp caves and crystal caves as Spy = challenging.
One word..
Droner.
they are resistant to posion damage so you just have to hide your meatsack and it's easy..
This is just silly. People want everything for nothing and demanding it now. Get a grip! The whole idea behind multi player games is teamwork. If you want to be able to solo everything you play a stand-alone game and if all you’re interested in is PvP go play Counter Strike or Q Arena. Neocron is more than just these aspects and it that is what makes it interesting. Everyone in the game shouldn’t be alike, but they should all be able to excel at some aspect of the game. I certainly wouldn’t want to take a droner to a fight in PP or try to have a tank construct weapons in P1.
Now I think part of the problem that is going on that stops people from getting over these issues mentioned in the above posts is the number of players. When servers have less than 300 people on its hard to find a team once you factor in the different factions that don’t get along, people off doing there own thing, low level players, OP battles, people standing around fighting PP and the like. This is biggest hurdle I face when I try to get down into the tunnels.
Your not forced to team though..
You don't need a MC5 chip, or if you realy feel you badly wnat one you can buy it..Buy it how?
I've only EVER seen one mc5 chip sold, and that was a riggers dream.
Your not forced to do high end PvM..If you want to pvp on an equal footing, then yes you are forced.
Take a step back, your asking to take away somthing for people who like to team because you like to solo..Who has asked for mc5 or doy tunnels to be removed?
Alternate ways to get mc5 chips is all that is being asked.
Two places where teaming is needed, two and your wailing like children because you don't want to be team ever..The only one's wailing and whining are the people on your side, "BUY MC5 BUY MC5 BUY MC5!!!!!"
Q`alooaith
02-06-04, 14:45
Who has asked for mc5 or doy tunnels to be removed?
Alternate ways to get mc5 chips is all that is being asked.
Celt, your asking for it to be removed from the team player's level area and made easyer so people can solo it..
That is what is meant by removed, your asking for the difculty of it to be reduced to a point where it's like all the other caves so you can solo it..
your asking for what make's it diffrent to be removed.
and you can buy MC5 chips, well maybe not on saturn so easly but they do get sold, or the part's at least..
My APU managed to get three DS part's without any of my char's stepping inside MC5, I had to trade a lot for them on saturn, but I got them so it's not impossible.
Nobody is whining BUY MC5, BUY MC5!!! I only pointed out that you have choices. The alternative to go hunting mc5 with a group, might not be the best, but they are still there.
I haven't read every single post here just the first page so sorry if this has already been mentioned.
Just because you cannot solo MC5 or Level 3 DoY tunnels doesn't kill of the individual.
There is a perfectly good trading system and you can buy these items or trade certain items for them which gives an individual a purpose.
I like the way it is at the moment as it is making it harder.
Most people must like it with the recent tripling in pop size on Pluto
I haven't read every single post here just the first page so sorry if this has already been mentioned.
Just because you cannot solo MC5 or Level 3 DoY tunnels doesn't kill of the individual.
There is a perfectly good trading system and you can buy these items or trade certain items for them which gives an individual a purpose.
I like the way it is at the moment as it is making it harder.
Most people must like it with the recent tripling in pop size on Pluto
dunno how it is on pluto but on saturn you will not get MC5 parts with out having MC5 parts to trade in xchange
dunno how it is on pluto but on saturn you will not get MC5 parts with out having MC5 parts to trade in xchange
you can bang out a deal with certain people.
Its all about supply and demand :)
I sold a Herc part for 5mil because i needed the cash. And at the end of the day there is always going to be someone who has a part possibly that they do not need and wouldn't mind trading for something or a bunch of rares more useful to them.
you can bang out a deal with certain people.
Its all about supply and demand :)
I sold a Herc part for 5mil because i needed the cash. And at the end of the day there is always going to be someone who has a part possibly that they do not need and wouldn't mind trading for something or a bunch of rares more useful to them.GG trying to get parts for cash on saturn
Q`alooaith
02-06-04, 14:58
GG trying to get parts for cash on saturn
You might not get MC5 part's for cash..
But even without MC5 part's to trade with you can get MC5 part's if your willing to part with CS and dev parts
Original monk
02-06-04, 15:12
GG trying to get parts for cash on saturn
getting harder but still possible yeah, you know on saturn everything can be arranged he :P
and indeed, maybe with some trowing around of regular techs, trow in some tigerblood drugs or that 1 rare the mc5seller is been looking he's ass off for sooo long :)
everything can be arranged hehe
when you got the money, i got the dope :)
Maloch Octavia
02-06-04, 15:32
My wisdom on the matter, which that cartoon summed up really well.
You are playing Online, in a Massively Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Game.
The basis of these games, and this theory, is predominantly to bring people together, to let people work as a team, and to share the benefits you reap from that.
This is the foundation, it will always remain so, that will never change.
Essentially, you stating that the game should be playable Solo, is like you walking into a Hair Salon and asking for a Big Mac and Fries.. That's not the purpose of that establishment.
There are one thousand good Singleplayer Games out there which should hold your entertainment, such as Baldurs Gate, Morrowind, and other RPG games. They essentially follow the same idea, except they are singleplayer, and interaction is with NPC's.
Why do people get so hyped up over the Solo aspect?
I have played Solo, I've played it most of my Neocron life, since Retail, and I can honestly say, that now that I have found a good Clan, and organised and friendly, and active Clan, that Solo play was complete....and utter.... shite.
You're here with real people, interact with them, work with them, team with them.
This is a Post-Apocalyptic world. We should, by rights, not even be able to step outside the City, without dying of radiation posioning. So how you could possibly contemplate being able to take on several large mutated beasts or bots on your own, in a tightly packed area, is beyond me.
Look at what you are already capable of as a Solo player:
You can hunt any above-ground Mob that you want to.
You can gain, from these Mobs, Techparts, Implants, Run drops, all the usual suspects, and more.
So if you have a hundred or so above-ground zones to explore and hunt in, then you must realise, that as a Solo player, this is your limit.
You have space to run and hide, to use distance.
You expect to be able to hold your own just as well, in a small, cramped, dark, enemy tunnel, filled with their best fighting machines, trained to kill on sight? I don't think so, do you?
If you want these parts which you cannot get by yourself, use your Techpart collection. Trade them for the parts you need, Ressed or Unressed. Ten Unressed TP's for one Ressed TP of 'X'.
Would it otherwise, really kill you to get a team of five or six guys and hunt in these Dungeons? I don't think it would, and I would call you an outright liar if you said that with these people, provided they were good people, that you would not enjoy yourself.
It sounds to me in one instance, like pure and utter greed...
"The loot is all mine, I refuse to share."
It also sounds like naivety, in that you might not have fully appreciated nor experienced real comradeship and teaming, with a dozen or so good people that will throw themselves in front of the line of fire.
You have no excuse to complain about the lack of 'Solo' elements. There are hundreds of things you can hunt, loot and experience as a single Runner.
You have to realise that age old life rule:
There is always something bigger, and badder, than you...
Which will beat your ass down..
Just supply the individual player with some valuable items that could be obtained via soloable mobs. They could be traded for the ones gained through a group.
Celt, your asking for it to be removed from the team player's level area and made easyer so people can solo it..
That is what is meant by removed, your asking for the difculty of it to be reduced to a point where it's like all the other caves so you can solo it..
your asking for what make's it diffrent to be removed.
Where have I asked for this?
I asked for NEW ways to be introduced for obtaining mc5 parts.
What is annoying me is that KK are forcing me to "Level up" so I can use the harder weapons or hunt the harder mobs. Clearly they are forcing me! Something must be done.
Prodigious
02-06-04, 15:56
No, you don't. The least expensive SA I know about went for 24 million NC on Pluto. The most a single person can have in NC is 20 million. Exactly how should a person with one account and no clan "buy" an MC5 CPU?
I don't own any MC5 parts or CPUs. I'd love to have all of them just as part of my collection, but I cannot buy them using a single account and I'm not about to trust anyone to help me get one via escrow.
That I know of, only people who obtained parts pre-MC5-lockdown or those who are part of strong clans or are affiliated/friends with strong clans have MC5 CPUs.
hmmz well ill tell you something
i worked fucking hard for my SA
and ive never been to mc5
fair enough i play on uranus you say, but i only play with one character, the other 3 are just bits and bob characters.
it cost me some fucking cool stuff including artifact weapons/spells, millions of credits, but i got it, get the parts seperately, thats what i did. you dont have to just jump in the deep end spam trade and expect to get an SA within a day........took me a whole week of spam :lol:
/edit no clan either
I gotta tell ya, a lot of the same people posting in this thread complaining about not being able to solo are the same people, or same type of player, that would tell someone with a LE in that they are ignoring the whole purpose of the game, being interaction with other players.
They are the same sort of people that when asked why they play Neo instead of a single player FPS game, they answer "because I like interacting with other people."
So here you have it people. Interact and enjoy it like the rest of us.
slaughteruall
02-06-04, 16:59
I gotta tell ya, a lot of the same people posting in this thread complaining about not being able to solo are the same people, or same type of player, that would tell someone with a LE in that they are ignoring the whole purpose of the game, being interaction with other players.
They are the same sort of people that when asked why they play Neo instead of a single player FPS game, they answer "because I like interacting with other people."
So here you have it people. Interact and enjoy it like the rest of us.
That really sums it up boys and girls. Live with it you cant please everyone in every game.
Slaughter
Let me add, that IMHO
solo content = easy content
Aside from a hybrid monk... if a runner can solo a mob, its not difficult. I have fought every mob in the game, bar none. And the only ones that are a challenge are the ones that in no way can be solo'd.
You want a challenge, people, better bring some friends. If you dont have friends, make some. :)
everything in the game is heading to a more and more team based game, sooner or later its gonna be that everything is gonna be team based, when that happens you can kiss my ass good bye.
Please drop me a line im about ready to say fuck it also.
i played this cos it was fun, you could do stuff on your own, or team with other players, both worked well.
now its more and more like you gotta have a ppu on your ass.
I started a droner just so I dont have to have a ppu with me. This really pisses me off that they make mobs you HAVE TO HAVE A FUCKING PPU TO HANDLE, im so sick of ppu's i could just puke.
i play this game to pvp/pk(once irecap my char) more and more the game is getting frustrating to me.
Back to the being sick of ppus. You cant just run out and kill people. You have to get a ppu to nurse maid you around most of the time or die.
meh other people like it as its going, so i would be one of a few so wouldnt be missed(certainly not as a killer) at end of day.
i just hope you all enjoy your enforced team play that you seemed to want
Earth and Beyond had tons of forced teamplay. They closed that piece of crap
I just wanted to expound on how much i agreeded with each of the points ezza made kthxby
It is a MMO, it should be team based with the top mobs, when i first played NC and saw a monk solo'ing a grim chaser, i was dissapointed to say the least, when MC5 came, it needed a team, which was good, ok the layout is piss poor and there should be more areas to get these parts to allow players to get a chance while the big clans fight over one small room.
I enjoy the fact that the top top TOP mobs need a team, and teamwork, working together for a greater goal than just yourself, that works for me, and it certainly gives the game more scope than just lvl up to kill.
BUT on the other hand i can agree with Ray on some of it, I'm not so sure about MC5 parts being on other mobs, but i do think the entire rare pool needs help, there is not one player in a clan or solo in this game at rank /60 that does not have a rare weapon, and most of the time its the top rare weapon.
I do think that the top rares should drop of the top mobs, thus team work is needed, BUT for those solo players that enjoy the game, a balance is needed and certain the same rare parts should drop from mobs "slightly" weaker but by far harder to get, as in time spent and chance of loot drop on said mob.
This gives the big teams in clans and such, more chance to equip their entire clan, giving that a clan can be 50 people as an average, the time spent collecting such rares would also para the solo guy out there hunting the less harder mobs for himself to get the same rare.
Here is an example:
Team based mob, something of a 120/120 in DOY lvl 3 tunnel, now its a boss type mob, dropping something of a min 2 rare parts per kill, a good team of near or capped players can kill this in say 20 mins.
The same rares drop from a slightly weaker mobs out in the wastelands, but these mobs can be solo'ed for the rare parts, maybe the loot rate is far less, maybe they need to kill 20 to get one such part, but one mob takes maybe 2 mins to kill, so 40 mins from hunting and one solo guy can get the same rare part, without having to team.
So in both cases the choice is there, it keeps both sides happy and allows people to aquire the top items without a lot of problems.
Its just an example but i think thats the point of the thread.
@ Snowcrash, do you understand ray's point now, and @ Ray, do you think i put it across correctly?
Personally i like team based mob hunting, you have a laugh with m8's and hopefully get something at the end so its not a waste of time, but on the other hand it is pushing to a more team based PvP, of which NC is not what it is all about, the term solo'ing should still exist.
I don't like the fact the solo'ing PvP is becoming more and more extinct, lets hope the WoC skills that come with B: DoY help us have a choice to become more self reliant.
Shadow Dancer
02-06-04, 18:09
SnowCrash....
An individual can solo a 120/120 chaser and get anywhere from zero to 3 tech parts. If there was an uber 240/240 fire monster at the end of some cool cavern that required large teams and 30 minutes to kill and which dropped anywhere from 5 -15 tech parts then that would be fun. The key here is that the loot is the SAME from both mobs but one requires more work and has a greater reward. Large clans would kill this mob 3-4 times and come away with 30+ techs while an individual can also go solo hunting and collect 30+ techs. Variety. Choice.
The problem with MC5 and the 3rd level of the tunnels is that they drop UNIQUE loot—EQ style.
KK seems to be focusing too much on MC5 as if it was the holy grail. I cannot emphasize enough how fabulous the PvP is in Neocron. This is what you need to concentrate on. The OP system needs a complete overhaul. The faction and soul light system needs a complete overhaul. Don’t make it so difficult for people to get their items—including MC5 chips—because items and leveling in Neocron are simply chores you want to get through so that the real fun can begin.
Amen Ray!
I remember lots of players crying for hard mob locations you can only handle with a group, now you have it and it's wrong again. *shakeshishead*
Why are you shaking your head? There's tons of people in the community. You can't honestly expect everyone to all like a certain aspect of the game. There will always be people who disagree or who don't like how's it done or a new feature or something. That's the way it is when dealing with lots of people.
i agree entirely with Raybobs post. but i think most people missed his point, including Snowcrash, and clearly also KK. what he's saying is that there is no need for certain items to be restricted to ONLY teams. yes, it SHOULD be the case that there are areas where only teams can go - yes snowcrash, this has been asked for, an no one is complaining that they exist - but the items found there should also necessarily exist ELSEWHERE in the game where solo hunters can find them too.
the balance should simply be that where team caves have team-sized rewards (i.e. frequent drops of these items), these same items would be much harder to find in non-team situations. either solo-able caves where the drops are very rare, but still useful XP. or very small-chance drops from regular mobs (if you ever get the drop-rate for strange books right, then you could have stuff drop like this).
teams can go to a cave and get good drops, individuals can then either buy those items from the teams, hire a team of their own, or go out and scratch around the wastes in the hopes of finding same.
Exactly. I was beginning to think nobody read ray's entire post.
everything in the game is heading to a more and more team based game, sooner or later its gonna be that everything is gonna be team based, when that happens you can kiss my ass good bye.
i played this cos it was fun, you could do stuff on your own, or team with other players, both worked well.
now its more and more like you gotta have a ppu on your ass.
i just hope you all enjoy your enforced team play that you seemed to want
Exactly. I feel the same way.
I fuckin love that this game is heading towards team based activities, it gives me the chance to have fun with my clan, and not be a "loner" when im out in the wastes.
So you can't have fun with your clan if this game is not team based?
Um ok....... o_O
No ezza, this is a MMOG, the point is you should have to team if you want to do the hardest of the hard endgame parts..
Well I think ray and ezza's point is that it wasn't like that in the beginning. Which was one of the appealing things about NC. Now it seems KK are changing that.
*FF Advertisement*
The difference is, FF has about a bajillion more players than NC. So I think their forced teaming is a bit easier to handle than in NC. "Struggling" to find a team is rediculous.
Also I don't think you should use population as a way to show that FF is doing somethng right. I mean, It's square and it's FF. Of course it would have had a huge pop from the beginning.
The point is, every MMORPG is different. Would you be happy if they suddenly turned FF into an fps style pvp game? I'm sure you wouldn't.
Similarly, I think Ray is trying to express how neocron is *changing* into something else.
at ya, but more and more as times gone on, the bit on the back of the box that said you can solo or team is becoming more and more of just team
Yup. They better get a new box with a more accurate description when DOY comes out.
Here let me spell it out for everyone. I have an idea that will please everyone.
REWARD teamplay but don't enforce it. OMFFOMGOMOMGMGMOGOMGOMGG GENIUS! Who would have thought? Yes make it much more appealing to be in a team and reward a team for teaming, but don't force it.
And don't give me that team crap either. In KK terminology, team=ppu. Or nowadays ppu+apu or ppu+tank. Why don't you make droners or pes bring something a little special and unique to teams? Pfftttt.
Aziraphale
02-06-04, 18:15
And don't give me that team crap either. In KK terminology, team=ppu. Or nowadays ppu+apu or ppu+tank. Why don't you make droners or pes bring something a little special and unique to teams? Pfftttt.
Bonus exp, interaction and able to take down more mobs per minute. I would say that's a reward, none of this is enforced upon you, if you really want to solo the DOY tunnels then you can, its a real challenge, but its doable.
The only thing which you absolutely essentially need a team for is MC5, but if that was reduced in difficulty to accomodate solo players then teams would be harvesting MC5's like theres no tommorow.
How do you suggest that KK make it so that you can solo everything, but not make it too easy for teams? I like Ray's idea about the 240/240 end of tunnel mob thing, but youd need more than that.
Shadow Dancer
02-06-04, 18:20
I don't remember anyone in this thread asking for those places to be soloable.
As for your "rewards" for teaming, the only real reward their is bonus XP. That's it. The others are just naturallly what happens when you have more people.
Anyways Ray was talking about different ways for a solo player to acquire those items, even if it's harder or just takes alot longer. He didn't say the caves should be soloable. Obviously they shouldn't.
Bonus exp, interaction and able to take down more mobs per minute. I would say that's a reward, none of this is enforced upon you, if you really want to solo the DOY tunnels then you can, its a real challenge, but its doable.
The only thing which you absolutely essentially need a team for is MC5, but if that was reduced in difficulty to accomodate solo players then teams would be harvesting MC5's like theres no tommorow.
How do you suggest that KK make it so that you can solo everything, but not make it too easy for teams? I like Ray's idea about the 240/240 end of tunnel mob thing, but youd need more than that.God jesus, READ PEOPLES POST BEFORE REPLYING.
No-one has asked for MC5 to be made solo'able.
NO ONE
Cruzbroker
02-06-04, 18:25
Maybe they could make them spawn as much there's players in the team (1 player = x spawns, 2 players = 2x spawns, 3 players = 3x spawns..) It would be bad luck if there's some big team been just before spawn reset and you go there by yourself... Also MC5s could drop as said *rarely* (as FH2) from Replicants and the 3 other rooms in Area MC5..
I have read through all the posts and have come up with the following conclusion.
Like anima said, every tank on every server has every RARE weapon going. That is wrong. there needs to be more rares. Like Ray said the filter heart 2 is an incredibly rare item and when I got one when I was a noobie I sold it for 50k. I realise now this was a massive mistake. But this is the ONLY rare in the game.
I think there should be new rare weapons added into the game that are as rare as the filter heart 2. This is the first point.
Second point disagrees slightly with Ray. I hate levelling solo. I want to group up and I believe that there should be a way where when I level with others - or hit incredibly hard mobs I get the chance of getting a more exciting piece of kit. Purely on the basis that after playing this game over 18 months I don't want to kill another warbot on my own to get my 74th cursed soul.
On the other hand, and this is the point I think Ray was trying to make, he should be able to kill things solo too. In general terms for us veterans the fact a new area to kill mobs in has been built is refreshing and although I haven't been to the tunnels yet I am looking forward to it. I would be terribly disappointed if I could solo it. But there should also be new areas for soloing purposes for people prefering to play that style.
I left the game for 6 months as I felt I had done everything in the game and the PVP brought me back. Imagine if when I turned up to an op fight some chars had different weapons. Linking to Everquest there are about 40 top range weapons which require a different con setup to use. Not every monk using a HL, not every tank holding a DG or a CS / speedgun. This appeals to me no end.
In roundup
1) add more levelling places for soloers that allow some rares to drop.
2) add harder places that require teamwork so people who hate soloing (such as myself) can level and hit something a bit mroe exciting that chaos caves with the chance that the end mob may drop a shit spell
3) Make some new rares that are actually rare - like the FH2
4) Make different weaons require you to have a different con plan so you didn't already know your opponents con plan.
Caves or dungeons style places = team based = Top rares and top items dropping = team bonus xp.
Wastelands lower lvl mobs = soloable = lower chance on rares or items = less xp.
It encourages people to team up, but doesn't enforce it.
Also team base XP is a great idea, imagine if you will for a minute, team size of 8, kill a mob and get your normal XP for said mob based on the dmg you did, then as a bonus for the team size it gives more XP at the end.
You obtained 1039nc
You obtained Team bonus XP 5000points
Imagine that! :eek:
Then of course KK need to add in more tunnel type areas for that, now chaos caves are of course soloable, maybe a hybrid or a tank, even a PE could do it, but of course its not entirely viable to solo the place, so a team is better, faster and well just better, but the choice is there, and that guy who doesn't want to team there can go solo other things to get xp and cash.
Its all about choice, but its also about KK allowing us that choice.
hmmz well ill tell you something
i worked fucking hard for my SA
and ive never been to mc5
fair enough i play on uranus you say, but i only play with one character, the other 3 are just bits and bob characters.
it cost me some fucking cool stuff including artifact weapons/spells, millions of credits, but i got it, get the parts seperately, thats what i did. you dont have to just jump in the deep end spam trade and expect to get an SA within a day........took me a whole week of spam :lol:
/edit no clan either
Congratulations mate - now think of it this way.
Do it again and get a filter heart 2.
Aziraphale
02-06-04, 18:36
God jesus, READ PEOPLES POST BEFORE REPLYING.
No-one has asked for MC5 to be made solo'able.
NO ONE
I did read them, it seems that I've misinterpreted them though.
I was using MC5 as an example, not a reference to someones post.
*tiptoes out of thread before people start throwing chairs*
here is a mob that does fuck all in game right now "hover bombers" they are an ass, kill em coz they are above a outpost, but seriously who really hunts them?
Now add in something like these ultima mobs and such to them as loot drop, but rare as in FH2 rare, then you will see those solo guys and yes even the odd team going out to hunt a hover bomber or two.
Whatever happened to the hazard worms, who hunts them anymore? bring them back or those big ones from very early NC days, put a few rares on them and you got more choice.
as for MC5 parts, well keep it to Mc5 area, but add 2 other base commanders in the other buildings, or better yet create a better building where you dont get zone hopping, and you dont get clans or groups fighting over one small room for it.
Better thinking is needed, no more rush jobs, maybe ask the community on new things for the game without giving out any idea on what your doing, you would be shocked at the feedback we can give ;)
I would love a day of looking forward to NC that doesn't involve just lvling up for op wars and easy ways of getting the top rares, coz after a while you got it all and just pvp is left to you, and that can get boring after many months.
Give us multiple choices, places to hunt, mobs to kill in teams or solo.
Bah i go on, time to log in anyway.
In conjunction to that think of it this way.
I rerolled an account and in 2 levelling sessions I am a level 100psi (with imps) ppu monk and I only need 2 more spells to make all my spells 3 slot minimum. What do I do with him when hes not OP fighting?
I could help others level - hardly riviting
I could go to mc5 - would pass an hour - then what?
I could level his int - w00t :/
What will happen is I willl end up on another char because I am out of options for things to do with this char. If there was an incredibly difficult cave I could go to where there were some PPU spells that dropped perhaps every 200th time you cleared it out (like a para or something but a useful version) that required a team of say a PPU, someone to hack somewhere (similar to TH) someone who needs a barter skill or something a bit different that required you do something other than spam left mouse button on a mob and PSI booster button. Actual missions or things to do that felt like a mission (and I certainly don't mean kill 5 rats or take this parcel to plaza 4) encouraging teamwork and not only using chars that fight. An ineresting concept.
Anyway that again is my 2 penneth.
Shadow Dancer
02-06-04, 18:48
I can't believe Ezza was banned. :wtf:
Anyways, I don't think they should be FH2 rare. That's too rare IMO. But rare nonetheless. Just like mc5 base commander only drops mc5 parts, how about making hovers only drop techparts for ultimas or something? Or some other rare like that.
And I agree with Yoda, BRING BACK hazard worm armor bug. :lol:
I personally don't think the FH2 is rare enough.
I have nothing to play for in this game at the minute. Even now if I REALLY wanted to and wanted to waste all my money I could get a FH2.
Give us something to play for so not EVERYONE on the server has one.
FH2 is a great example.
So is the MC5. If I wanted a MC5 chip I could get one within a week. I want something like the FH2 where it isn't essential - just nice to have.
Make a spell that only 1% of the server has. Make the game interesting - not with every char having the same setup with the same weapons. Not something where if you have enough money you can buy it.
Darth Slayer
02-06-04, 19:03
RayBob seriously don't know what your problem is.
I quite enjoy DOY tunnels and such as it does indeed require you to take a team down with you. Hence ppl start talking more working together more and generally cooperating to a larger degree.
I agree there should be more MC5 areas and maybe with BDOY there will be.
But again MC 5 is ok as it is.
Why did anyone ever get the idea that everyone should be able to get everything they ever wanted? If this were the case I would rule Neocron and everyone would be my little puppets. Neocron is an exaggerated version of the real world. Do you get everything you wanted in the real world? Of course not, so why should you in Neocron? You should have to work long and hard to get the things that you really want and sometimes that means doing things you don’t necessarily like in this case you may have to join a team. If your only need these items so you can compete on the same level as other people so PvP outcomes are based on “skill” alone why not play a game that doesn’t require you to get anything. Besides if you were really skilled should you not be able to beat people without having these items yourself? Personally I like playing in teams and I enjoy having an area my team mates and I can go to and not be hassled or annoyed by solo players buzzing about cause me grief.
Punctuation is your friend, as is quoting.
It was a general statement about the overall impression I got from this thread and not directed at any single person, therefore no quote. Also you really feel a need to comment on my post at least keep it to the topic at hand.
Thanks
Ghanima
oops I guess I just suckered into responding my bad :angel:
ok, i read the first page and andneed to disagree on the topic. atm i play as an inividual too. but idividual dont stop me from team up and visit those places. its simply because solo mob huntin is borin, even if you only play 5-10 hours a week.
most people are bored because there isnt much more team content other them outpost fights and a few caves/MC5.
btw, for what in the world need an LE an MC5 or slot enhancers (that canbe bought everywhere now)
Im still not buying the "reward teamplay but dont enforce it" line. BS. Thats what they do now.
Right now you can solo EVERY mob in the WHOLE GAME except the MC5 mobs and now the DOY tunnels.
Yet... even with all of that solo material, you have people whining about it.
Why?
Cause the heart of the matter is that the power players are over-concerned about having the best possible gear out there. Even though you can easily have a kickass PvP runner without a single MC5 chip, people convince themselves they must have them.
So its not that people want to play the game without a PPU...is that the whiners want to be able to get MC5 chips without the help of anyone else.
Its not MC5 or the tunnels that people want to solo- its the rewards that they want to obtain solo.
--
Now as far as the PPU reliance- Biznatchy, describe for us even is just plain theory how a mob could be tough AND not require a PPU???
Thats like saying "I wish they would make mobs that I didnt need good con, good armor, and a good weapon to kill."
But seriously, instead of threatening to leave the game (onoz!!!) describe for us what sort of mob or even dungeon scenario you could have in Neocron where you WOULDNT need a PPU to help BUT its still challenging and its considered high end content.
????
Anxiously awaiting your ideas on this matter.
And just in case anyone misses the point, its this: as I stated before, its impossible to make a mob be "high end" or "hard" without runners relying on teams and/or PPUs. Any mob that you can take without a PPU can in no way be difficult. By definition.
Speaking about mobs. First of all KK could make the mobs a damn lot faster moving, higher rof on their attacks, perhaps less health and more damage. They could band up melee mobs(tough and fast buggers with bloodlust aggro) with slower ranged mobs. So if you attack a group alone you would have to keep moving or else you would have the melee buggers hacking on you while you crouch behind cover to put on a heal.
And please cant we just nerf the PPU`s just a little. Put a penalty to heal cast on others. So only ppus would get the holy heal effect, everyone else could max get the tl 3 effect. Just do something. I dont remember who it was that pulled out the "Ideal for playing in teams, clans or alone" quote, but here is another selling point of Neocron. "FPS-like combat". Everything about the ppu as they are now goes against FPS combat. PvM in particular, but also PvP. Because of ppu powah you need to have mobs that hurt alot and can take alot of damage. My suggestion above would fall to pieces as soon as a ppu enters the arena.
I love when you reach outzone leveling worthyness. Its the only time the Neocrons PvM feels FPS-like. Mobs are dangerous, they dont take forever to take down and early on all you got to heal yourself with is medpacks or a lousy tl 3 heal(which still is pretty uber).
here is a mob that does fuck all in game right now "hover bombers" they are an ass, kill em coz they are above a outpost, but seriously who really hunts them?
Uh... I did for a while. :lol:
I got real tired of hunting WBs over and over and wanted a change of pace (priot to the recent patches). So I spent several days/weeks running around hunting all the hover mobs (hoverbots, hoverstations, hovereyes, hoverbombers, etc.).
It was a nice change - however, the one thing that really sucks about them is that a majority of the time the damn things would drop on the side of a hill or a mountain and you couldn't get into a position to hack them! :mad: That's what really made me go back to WBs.
Haven't done it since the new patch, but the mobs were also a pain as well since you'd shoot them for a bit - and then they'd just back up and head in the other direction. They wouldn't follow you or keep attacking, they'd just tuck tail and back away. o_O
*we now return you to your orignal topic*
I love when you reach outzone leveling worthyness. Its the only time the Neocrons PvM feels FPS-like. Mobs are dangerous, they dont take forever to take down and early on all you got to heal yourself with is medpacks or a lousy tl 3 heal(which still is pretty uber).You are right, that is a FUN time in the game.
But think about this.
It works cause your TL 3 heal combined with natural defenses is JUST enough to keep up with the damage of the mobs.
Problem is that people want the mob level/loot to scale up but somehow the healing NOT scale up (only way to scale up a TL3 heal is with a PPU).
Now maybe if we had some other non-PPU healing options in the game, we can discuss this further. But as it is now, the only way to scale healing to match the increase in mob level is to get a PPU. Period.
Shadow Dancer
02-06-04, 22:07
Im still not buying the "reward teamplay but dont enforce it" line. BS. Thats what they do now.
Right now you can solo EVERY mob in the WHOLE GAME except the MC5 mobs and now the DOY tunnels.
Yet... even with all of that solo material, you have people whining about it.
Why?
Cause the heart of the matter is that the power players are over-concerned about having the best possible gear out there. Even though you can easily have a kickass PvP runner without a single MC5 chip, people convince themselves they must have them.
I already have *everything* I want, and I'm still agreeing with Ray. I'm sure ray has everything he wants as well. This is about where we think the game is going.
Speaking about mobs. First of all KK could make the mobs a damn lot faster moving, higher rof on their attacks, perhaps less health and more damage. They could band up melee mobs(tough and fast buggers with bloodlust aggro) with slower ranged mobs. So if you attack a group alone you would have to keep moving or else you would have the melee buggers hacking on you while you crouch behind cover to put on a heal.
And please cant we just nerf the PPU`s just a little. Put a penalty to heal cast on others. So only ppus would get the holy heal effect, everyone else could max get the tl 3 effect. Just do something. I dont remember who it was that pulled out the "Ideal for playing in teams, clans or alone" quote, but here is another selling point of Neocron. "FPS-like combat". Everything about the ppu as they are now goes against FPS combat. PvM in particular, but also PvP. Because of ppu powah you need to have mobs that hurt alot and can take alot of damage. My suggestion above would fall to pieces as soon as a ppu enters the arena.
I love when you reach outzone leveling worthyness. Its the only time the Neocrons PvM feels FPS-like. Mobs are dangerous, they dont take forever to take down and early on all you got to heal yourself with is medpacks or a lousy tl 3 heal(which still is pretty uber).
AMEN Mirco! <3
I see your point strych9, but the way the ppu heal is scaled now, the only way to provide a challenge is to have no cover to catch a breather. The moment you are in a situation where there is plenty of cover the holy heal is very overpowered because mobs are slow and inept.
In my outzone example, I didnt just stand in one spot healing and shooting the mobs. I had to move around, take cover, heal up and get back out again. That was fun. Had the mobs been faster and with more aggro it would have been a serious challenge.
My point is, lets get away from the take damage/deal damage and see who survives type of gameplay. TAKE COVER!!!! ;). It would of course require some changes to maps or dungeons, mob and mob-ai tweaking and some good ol' nerfing. Jupp I`m dreaming....
You are right, that is a FUN time in the game.
But think about this.
It works cause your TL 3 heal combined with natural defenses is JUST enough to keep up with the damage of the mobs.
Problem is that people want the mob level/loot to scale up but somehow the healing NOT scale up (only way to scale up a TL3 heal is with a PPU).
Now maybe if we had some other non-PPU healing options in the game, we can discuss this further. But as it is now, the only way to scale healing to match the increase in mob level is to get a PPU. Period.
Fuck NO. You dont have to scale up the healing with a ppu. You should scale the damage output of the mobs down and the total health of mobs down. So that a Tank or PE can fight them without a ppu. Now take Doomreapers for example they are really fun to fight, you dont have pound on them for 10 min like a chaser, they dont take half your health in one shot if you have you armor setup and good con. Terror leapers with the gang spawn are really cool to fight solo. They make you run find cover when you get over run. Mobs you can pound on till you notice your finger is tired of holding the mouse mutton down is bad.
The major problem with MC5 and Doy tunnles is the level design doesnt allow for people the use of cover. They are designed with no place to take cover for tanks and pe's to heal and relaod.
Having a PPU with you should make hard things easier and faster, but not impossible things possible.
Have to agree with ray here. No nerfage to the caves or mc5 just simply making it more viable for things to drop outside of those areas too.
If they made the ultima/slot enhancers drop on surface mobs about half the time they do under ground that would be a good trade-off.
It still makes the loot viable for all game styles which we have played since the begining.
I really don't believe people slating ray and the others for having a view different to what kk is doing/appears to be doing at the moment. We all pay for the game and we can all hold a view no matter what. Alot of you have nerf para messages thats your view too going against kk.
Funny thing is most of the time you will find the solo hunter players(you know who they are on the whole) trading items and not a clan.
..... Terror leapers with the gang spawn are really cool to fight solo. They make you run find cover when you get over run......
hmm, i can still fight a terror leaper with an H-C PE with a TL40 gat cannon.
if im lucky without cover but usualy with max one heal. thats EASY not FUN.
tbh i cant imagine running around with a rare weapon because none of my chars are able to use on and PvM is borin.
it must be just as "challangeing" as killing grims in a scorpion bike or a APC.
neocron is the worst example of you can get it all games.
you can use all epics
you canbe fighter and trader
you dont need to visit traders frequently
you dont need to care about items
you get money for killin stuff without selling loot or doing missions.
and many more. NC attract to many "single players"
Oh come now .. if the cash cap was alot higher like in beta umm i think it was over 2billion nc . . .people would make things cost a hell of alot more and make mc5 chips cost 3billion or some stupidly high price over the cap. That's just the way it goes. they think rare .. it's so rare it goes over your money cap. It's players that put these high prices on them to imply how rare they are.
Mc5 chips are'nt even that good dude....they should sell for about 2 million ...i would find a 3 slot rare pvp gun alot RARER than a mc5 chip.
The reason they are so high in price is because of kk...does a tank need a herc? no. They sell for 20 million +. Does a monk need a DS? no. They sell for 20 million +. Does a spy need a RD? no. They sell for 20 million +. We all have base 100 skills. Does a PE need a SA? yes, it opens a whole new fucking world to a pe and THATS why they cost so much which is wrong...it takes 'time' to get a mc5 chip...a whole lot shorter ammount/ALOT easier than getting 30 million nc whether you brt/ress/cst or not.
As for trading things for mc5 chips....well...all i can say it yes wtf-ever...i would need to trade my account for a mc5 which is pretty useless or trade of my tanks cs/doomie/moonie/rav my apus spells....my pe's guns...my others pe's guns...my other tanks weapons for a mc5 chip...wow ill be teh uber rox0r with my mc5 chip and no gun. :rolleyes:
you get money for killin stuff without selling loot or doing missions.
That one is just wrong imho. "Someone" just hands you money. It cant be my faction because what BT has to gain from me killing a chaser in Gaya or wooping 100000 scorpions in the pits I can`t imagine.
One thing about eve(the short time I was playing) that was awesome was that when you where out hoarding resources, you always knew that some assholes could come along and steal your stuff. Now mining wasnt very fun, but lets say you went out in the wastelands to mine or hunt mobs and your buddy takes with him a portable GOGO on his car because you cant possibly carry all that stuff. Now this gogo would work as a "magic bag" holding alot of stuff, but it can be hacked and looted. Imagine the havoc guys. That would be funny.
I'm not sure I understand this argument :wtf: I'll just say I agree with SnowCrash, and am amazed his comment (that op war and SL systems will be heavily revamped in DoY) got so overlooked. Go KK, we love you :D
The only issues I have with teams as they are just now is the over-reliance of PPUs, and the general bad attitude of people towards PPUs.
Common occurance while leveling my new PPU:
Some random person I've never met comes up to me, blocks my line of sight to my team mates and demands "haz heal". Pretty rude imho, but not as bad as when I point out I have an LE in and usually get lots of verbal abuse from people who seem to think it's they KK-given right to be healed as and when they need it if a PPU is around.
The over-reliance on PPUs really does get on my nerves; someday I'd like to go to an OP war with my Spy and not my PPU and not feel like I'm letting everyone down. Or perhaps see two tanks fight a tank+ppu and not know the result before the fight even starts.
But back on topic...if you want an MC5 or Ultima find some friends 8|
The difference is, FF has about a bajillion more players than NC. So I think their forced teaming is a bit easier to handle than in NC. "Struggling" to find a team is rediculous.
Also I don't think you should use population as a way to show that FF is doing somethng right. I mean, It's square and it's FF. Of course it would have had a huge pop from the beginning.
Yeah it is Square, yeah peeps would have flocked to play, but if it wasnt working then why do 25k+ players stay?
It already has pvp first person combat, sup to you if you wanna participate, all you need is a rank,
The game needs its various things for various people, it's aimed at like what 1st person pvpers now? There should be uber hard mobs in areas, there should be soloable mobs, thngs they reward for killing should vary.
The only thing you work for is getting of your feet, earning that first few k to get your first good wep and your away, everything else is just a repetative treadmill upto the pvp point, kill the same mob with the same attack with the same hp, with the same difficulty everytime, whys it hard to have a mob that could be conned as 60/60 but in reality is like 80/80 to make peeps think or catch em out.
Ju8st needs to be other things to do thats for more capped players, meaning some hard long battles, quests, etc....
To the "take caver" crowd..
You playing the same game I am?
There is no "dodging" in Neocron. When you see a grim pers across the screen, and he fires at you, it is immediately decided if you are hit or not. You can duck behind cover, but you will still catch on fire.
All mob attacks are calculated like that. You dont ever reall "dodge" much of anything after the attack is in the air.
Now take away the monk non-line-of-sight attacks, such as FA and HL and the beam spells... and what do you have left with the idea of taking cover???
You step out from cover, acquire target, attack until it looks like you are about to die. Then you take full cover, and start healing, until you are healthy enough to fight again (without a PPU there I mean).
I think Biz and Micro need to take a step back and instead of thinking about how things SHOULD be, take a look at how they are. You can ask for the introduction of duck and cover mobs all day long, but without a game engine rewrite, that wont matter AT ALL.
--
Now Biznatchy says that the problem with the tunnels is that there is no healing place for PEs and such to heal.
Would that make it really fun, or better? So now you fight, then run and heal, then fight some more. HOW CHALLENGING.
At least NOW, in the tunnels, its a challenge for everyone down there. Offensive runners must always stay positioned so as to take the least damage and get a clean shot and avoid melee or other runners getting in front of them. PPUs must try to keep all buffs going, manage heals, try to combat rezz with uber mobs nearby. Spies and PEs (yes, we have had em down there) fight AND have to hack the bodies of the mobs.
Right now, down there, its challenging for everyone involved.
With a "safe spot" to heal up WHILE fighting... it would no longer involve any skill and there would be no challenge.
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 00:55
Mc5 chips are'nt even that good dude....they should sell for about 2 million ...i would find a 3 slot rare pvp gun alot RARER than a mc5 chip.
WAAHHHTTT?
The over-reliance on PPUs really does get on my nerves; someday I'd like to go to an OP war with my Spy and not my PPU and not feel like I'm letting everyone down. Or perhaps see two tanks fight a tank+ppu and not know the result before the fight even starts.
Amen!
Yeah it is Square, yeah peeps would have flocked to play, but if it wasnt working then why do 25k+ players stay?
I won't compare NC to FF. They are just faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar far too different.
And dude, please use quotes next time. :D :D
I think Biz and Micro need to take a step back and instead of thinking about how things SHOULD be, take a look at how they are. You can ask for the introduction of duck and cover mobs all day long, but without a game engine rewrite, that wont matter AT ALL.
Good point strych9. I`ll shut up now. :)
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 01:01
Sometimes I think that NC doesn't even have true fps traits to it. I mean look at all the magic(monks) in op wars. Then the fact that you can't dodge projectiles(only hope smeone MISSES in pvp). Then the fact that tons of people play in third person.
BAH!
Clownst0pper
03-06-04, 01:37
mc5 chips "arent" really that good, I have to agree.
There only need on a PE if u really want to push for the highest TL rares without gimping yourself.
Apart from that, if you cant make a good setup without them, you dont deserve them, and arent good enough to deserve them.
I think most people do get it into there heads that they need it, just because they dont have it :rolleyes:
Good point strych9. I`ll shut up now. :)No need to shut up... :)
Just wanted to remind you this is really STILL a RPG, just trying to look and act like a FPS.
Should they ever change it so all guns and attacks are true FPS style, then yes, what you say would be awesome.
Until then though, you really have 2 types of fights in Neocron- the type you can withstand the enemy damage or outheal it with a TL3 heal... or the type where you need a PPU to keep you alive.
Frankly- there isnt anything in between, and given how the game works, I am not sure there even can be.
bah poop on this thread. Stop complaning MC5 and the tunnels are fine. I never had any herc parts and now i am almost about to get a full one after 3 mc5 trips, and i also got a heavy ultima for my cs. Stop whining!!!!
Birdman[H.E.]
03-06-04, 10:00
I don't get the point with beeing locked out. You always have the possibility to buy these unique items from other players. Or you just hire a small group of runners (the mercs nearly do everything for moneh :wtf: hehe) that assist you and you buddy with engaging MC5 or the lowest Tunnel levels. Hiring other runners to assist you doesn't necessarily mean for you to join a clan or a fixed group and it also supports RP alot and involves others which should improve the fun for everyone very much.
Tell this to a player population server of 25 like Pluto Haves.. LOL how can you get a big team in there?
As long as it doesnt become like SWG, where 8 Capped and Scripted characters camp the high level mobs for holocrons and everyone else is locked out - i dont see a problem.
We leveled several characters each, hunted like crazy,
if you hunt like i do then you'll do good my friend.
I won't compare NC to FF. They are just faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar far too different.
And dude, please use quotes next time. :D :D
It's not a comparison it's just a element i used as an example, if i played everquest or something then i coulda used pvm there as a example but i don't so i couldn't heh.
But most have the same general theme no?
White Mage/healer etc = Ability to raise, cure boost, but can't take a beating
Black Magic/Aggressive mag High Damage for low defense
Hybrid War/Wizard dude = Low lev spells, offense and defense and good war
War = Protects the week feeble mages while they help him
if people had to rely on each other rather than just the man with uber defensive buffs then maybe pvm and pvp would be diff.
and yeah mob dodging sucks, i always dodge the attack or as far as i see but then the damage is magically deducted anyway after... :(
yeah that's the problem with pvm, you can't dodge shots. except with the doomharbinger, but the massive aoe effect on that hits your legs and slows you down to roach speed :x
all the other attacks home in on the target (players) or do direct damage like copbot rifles.
Only way to dodge such attacks is stay hidding and shoot in 3rd person but thats considered an exploit if im not mistaken o_O
Aziraphale
03-06-04, 13:36
Are you sure you can't dodge shots? I'm sure that when hunting fire mobs I've moved behind walls from their fireballs and not been injured.
Ozambabbaz
03-06-04, 14:05
There will be a major overhaul of these features with BDoY but I cannot give you any details yet.
i am so glad i read this :)
To Birdman[H.E.], last night Pluto had > 100 players, and many of those have more than 1 account(!)
here is a mob that does fuck all in game right now "hover bombers" they are an ass, kill em coz they are above a outpost, but seriously who really hunts them?
Ask that question again in 2 weeks when i can finally wear the Tangent Radiation suit and use Distruptor.
As for MC5 chips, they are overrated. Yes, i'd love to have that +10 research/construction from Hawkins, but trying to find a MC5 poker is sometimes hopeless. I havent had any problem getting VERY high stats on my constructed rares so far without it.
ok neither caves or mc5 take a big team. 1 tank or 1 apu can do it with a decent ppu you dont need a huge team. Ok me whos only been playing this game on and off since the end of last summer can do it with only have 2 or 3 trips to mc5 prior to the new version of it. And having the chips easier to is awesome because now i have more options to try crazy setups
Team play is what makes MMOs so great, but as its been said, the unforunate thing is that team=PPU. When it all comes down to it, a team of 10 people without a PPU will get owned in many areas where a single PPU and a tank would clean it out no problem. But in reality, the only way to change this would be with a major game overhaul.
For now, lets stick with some places requiring large teams. Just make sure those places dont drop loot thats required to be competetive in PvP and I'm happy, even though Ill probably hunt there often myself.
Plain and simple, if you want to hunt every mob in the game by yourself, then an MMO might not be the game for you.
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 18:16
Team play is what makes MMOs so great, but as its been said, the unforunate thing is that team=PPU. When it all comes down to it, a team of 10 people without a PPU will get owned in many areas where a single PPU and a tank would clean it out no problem.
Exactly.
But in reality, the only way to change this would be with a major game overhaul.
Why do you say that?
mc5 chips "arent" really that good, I have to agree.
And other similar quotes.
The thing about MC5s is they aren't brilliant, but they are massively better than the alternatives. The difference between PSI Core and MC5 is marginal; the difference between a Def/Off PSI Proc 1 or Exp-"nerfy nerf"-Psi controller 3 and and MC5 is huge even though the MC5 isn't in itself awesome.
However to relate this to the topic at hand, getting an MC5 with a team or without isn't very difficult, so if people have no friends to hunt with and don't want to form ad-hoc teams there's still other ways they can get MC5s. On saturn for example they could collect normal rares, which sell for insane amounts, and trade them for MC5s.
--------
On an entirely unrelated note, I'm now back on Broadband. I'd just like to say anyone on 56k has my deepest heartfelt sympathies; you must have godlike patience.
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 18:25
The thing about MC5s is they aren't brilliant, but they are massively better than the alternatives. The difference between PSI Core and MC5 is marginal; the difference between a PSI Proc 1 or Exp-"nerfy nerf"-Psi controller 3 and and MC5 is huge even though the MC5 isn't in itself awesome.
Yes! That is so right. DS adds alot to my apu. ALOT!
I wish xp cont 3 didn't suck so much. :p
Why do you say that? Because I think monks as a class are flawed to the core. Don't get me wrong, I love my PPU and enjoy playing him more than even my PE, but the monk class in Neocron changes every single aspect of the game.
Just think about a simple pking scenario.
"Let's go pking?"
"Should I bring my PPU?"
"No pking with a PPU is lame"
"But what if they have a PPU?"
"Well then Ill bring my APU"
"But he dies too easy without a PPU"
"So I guess bring your PPU"
Ending decision: The pkers go pking with an APU and a PPU. This isnt just for pking, its for basically every single solitary combat situation ever.
Its a bit the same with hunting. You can make any hunting place as hard as you want, but the SECOND it requires a PPU, it suddenly becomes easy again. So how do you make it more difficult? Require another PPU? Bam. Suddenly easy again.
The monk class to put it as plainly as possibly, fucks the game over in every single way you can think of. That'd need a mighty big overhaul to the monk in general, a lot of things would need to change, and a lot of people wouldnt be happy because of it. :p
Shadow Dancer
03-06-04, 18:35
Yea you're totally right Jest I feel the same way. Even if the apu gets changed to something totally different than what I like, I still think the whole monk class should be reworked from the start. But like you said, i'm sure that would anger alot of players.
Not that their are many. :lol:
Clownst0pper
03-06-04, 21:41
Yea you're totally right Jest I feel the same way. Even if the apu gets changed to something totally different than what I like, I still think the whole monk class should be reworked from the start. But like you said, i'm sure that would anger alot of players.
Not that their are many. :lol:
Id like monks to be hybrid viable in the strangest sense.
Make all chips Give APU + PPU, but varying ammounts, and have 2 types of Monk.
PPU based monk who has a variety of buffing and speed spells, with good offensive
And an APU based monk, who has high offensive abilitys, but a lower degree of healing and buffing.
Make it like DAoC please, it works amazing :(
(obviously youd have to change there names) :)
slaughteruall
03-06-04, 21:48
Id like monks to be hybrid viable in the strangest sense.
Make all chips Give APU + PPU, but varying ammounts, and have 2 types of Monk.
PPU based monk who has a variety of buffing and speed spells, with good offensive
And an APU based monk, who has high offensive abilitys, but a lower degree of healing and buffing.
Make it like DAoC please, it works amazing :(
(obviously youd have to change there names) :)
i could live with this. Would take alot of testing to get it right the first time. But it would help alot of things out in the long run i think.
Slaughter
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