Ebay Nerfed

[whifix]

I cruise ebay at least once a week looking around for stuff I dont need but want. Every now and then I look for neocron stuff because I think it's cool that products in the world of neocron have a dollar value IRL. Well I goto look today and it has been nefed compare to the usual amount of stuff for sale. Usually there are an assortment of guns, spells, imps etc. Now there is only neocredits and some accounts. Did KK some how find a way to nerf the selling of items on ebay?

[retr0n]

supply and demand, and for the moment there is not a great deal of demand
on neocron stuff... might aswell save it untill bdoy and sell it later :p

[Lexxuk]

Its modern business theory known as "supply and demand" the supply for NC far outweighs the demand for NC, so the supply will fizzle out until the demand picks up again.

[retr0n]

Its modern business theory known as "supply and demand" the supply for NC far outweighs the demand for NC, so the supply will fizzle out until the demand picks up again.

Didnt i just write that? O_o :lol:

[whifix]

I'm thinking that there were 2 or 3 people who sold stuff on ebay and kk figured out who they were and banned their accounts.

[Lexxuk]

Didnt i just write that? O_o :lol:

Yes, but, because of the time difference between you and me, it actually put yours before mine, even though mine was posted 23 days ago :p :lol: :lol:

[retr0n]

Yes, but, because of the time difference between you and me, it actually put yours before mine, even though mine was posted 23 days ago :p :lol: :lol:

Oh shit... my bad :p



I'm thinking that there were 2 or 3 people who sold stuff on ebay and kk figured out who they were and banned their accounts.

Selling NC stuff on ebay is not against any rules, you just cant advertise
for your items on these forums.

[whifix]

*Reading the rules*
Closest I have so far is;

10) You may not use the NEOCRON Service or the NEOCRON Web Site for any activities other than activities that are permitted within the game world.

Selling items for cash in the real world sounds like it might be a violation of this.

//Edit//
There is also this little handy misc. clause;
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IF YOUR ACCOUNT AND RIGHT TO USE THE NEOCRON SERVICE IS TERMINATED BY REAKKTOR MEDIA FOR ANY REASON , YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES PAID BY YOU FOR USE OF THE NEOCRON SERVICE AND YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED ACCESS TIME THAT YOU HAVE REMAINING AT THE TIME OF TERMINATION

[FirestarXL]

I don't think it's any intervention by kk, they've pretty much said in the past, "Sell if you must, just don't advertise it here". It's more likely, as others have said, that people aren't bothering to waste money on listing fees, knowing it's not worth it.

[virgil caine]

Sometimes I read a post and I wonder: has it become a common Idea that KK is just sitting there doing everything they can to be hard to get along with and ruin everyones fun.

I realize that there have been some mistakes in the past but I also have the sense to understand that they were mistakes plain and simple. The people at KK are working in relatively uncharted territory and are doing the best they can under difficult circumstances.

Give them a break and give it a rest, There is no evil conspiracy to ruin your fun, keep in mind there is also no book to tell them how to do it right. Its on the job learning and training.

Give them a hand for standing their ground and not letting the so called "BIG GUYS" take their dream away from them and make it the same old crap everyone else has to offer.

If you must flame, do it about content rather that spelling or grammer, makes you look more intelligent.

[jernau]

*Reading the rules*Closest I have so far is; 10) You may not use the NEOCRON Service or the NEOCRON Web Site for any activities other than activities that are permitted within the game world. Selling items for cash in the real world sounds like it might be a violation of this. //Edit//There is also this little handy misc. clause;YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IF YOUR ACCOUNT AND RIGHT TO USE THE NEOCRON SERVICE IS TERMINATED BY REAKKTOR MEDIA FOR ANY REASON , YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES PAID BY YOU FOR USE OF THE NEOCRON SERVICE AND YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED ACCESS TIME THAT YOU HAVE REMAINING AT THE TIME OF TERMINATIONMJS stated that he finds it amusing how in-game items trade in the real world and that he has no problem with NC items selling on ebay. It's not exactly an official company position but it would be difficult for them to object without making a clear statement to the contrary now.

Some auctions have been withdrawn by the sellers in the past because they were selling items they should not have had and were banned for exploiting. What kind of moron advertises his exploited loot you can decide for yourself.

[G.0.D.]

I used to sell alot of stuff on ebay for pluto... but even at rediculesly low prices many items go unsold now. :(

*Coff Bdoy sure is great ^points to sig^*

[seraphian]

some economics major at my school actually figured out the Gross Domestic Product of several MMORPGs as if they were countries.

He took the value of an in game monitary unit in real dollars, based on as many auctions as he could find, and then calculated the average money-per-hour that a character got in loot, based on the averages from a newb, a capped character and a few levels in between...

Turns out Everquest has a GNP greater than several nations, and that a PP in Everquest is worth more than a Japanese Yen (ouch)

I asked him to check out Neocron, he couldn't find enough auctions to do the baseline... oh well, we generate so much cash per player the NC is probably worth almost nothing... oh well lol :lol:

[Heavyporker]

actually, no, even with so few auctions going around (and I think you neglected the fact that ebaying Neocron items has been going on for well over a year, *if* Ebay had saved that data, it would be in the thousands of auctions, more than enough to start a baseline) the value of Neocredits is fairly constant...

- 5 million nc for 25 dollars US... that's 5 dollars a million nc (ignore the fact that a million nc posted for auction singly often nets 8 dollars each). It varies a bit week to week, but its been constant, even now (at least for Saturn to Ebay auctions.)

[jernau]

http://www.gamingopenmarket.com/gameSummary.php?gameID=12

It's not the only one I'm sure but I think it was the first. They don't list the NC though.

There have also been several articles written about MMO economies in some surprisingly reputable areas. This (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828) is one of the most interesting and this (http://buzzle.com/editorials/text10-23-2002-28739.asp) site mentions a few other interesting bits-and-bobs. I'm sure google can find more, I had/have a load more links somewhere I know.

You sure your class-mate didn't "borrow" from the web a little seraphian? ;)

[Lexxuk]

what you doin up this early big j? O_o

[jernau]

what you doin up this early big j? O_o
Reading the forums and drinking my breakfast.8|

[Lexxuk]

Reading the forums and drinking my breakfast.8|

you do of course realise we can spam like crazy? all the mods are asleep :angel:

[seraphian]

my friend did a term paper for Econ 204 on it, so his research was legit. The existing data mostly compares value, not production. He did all of the calculations that you can do on a countries economy, including export (the amount of stuff taken out of the game) imports (the amount of stuff added) Per capita consumption and production, the works.

So he had a new angle on it, although he did use a lot of the sources that you guys linked as source material. I don't think the paper is availible online, but he might post it sometime... now that he can get a real-life to NC conversion maybe he can do something for us NC players...

anyone know the total number of players in NC, or how aobut on jsut one server, like Pluto or Saturn?

[jernau]

my friend did a term paper for Econ 204 on it, so his research was legit. The existing data mostly compares value, not production. He did all of the calculations that you can do on a countries economy, including export (the amount of stuff taken out of the game) imports (the amount of stuff added) Per capita consumption and production, the works.

So he had a new angle on it, although he did use a lot of the sources that you guys linked as source material. I don't think the paper is availible online, but he might post it sometime... now that he can get a real-life to NC conversion maybe he can do something for us NC players...Sounds interesting. If you can blag a copy I'd be interested to see it. How exactly did he define "import" and "export"? There are many functions with no direct online equivalents to the most useful RL ones so analogies are used a lot in all the articles I've seen. It's interesting to see the different ways people draw their comparisons.



anyone know the total number of players in NC, or how aobut on jsut one server, like Pluto or Saturn?KK won't say for fairly obvious reasons.

[whifix]

Sometimes I read a post and I wonder: has it become a common Idea that KK is just sitting there doing everything they can to be hard to get along with and ruin everyones fun.

I realize that there have been some mistakes in the past but I also have the sense to understand that they were mistakes plain and simple. The people at KK are working in relatively uncharted territory and are doing the best they can under difficult circumstances.

Give them a break and give it a rest, There is no evil conspiracy to ruin your fun, keep in mind there is also no book to tell them how to do it right. Its on the job learning and training.

Give them a hand for standing their ground and not letting the so called "BIG GUYS" take their dream away from them and make it the same old crap everyone else has to offer.

If you must flame, do it about content rather that spelling or grammer, makes you look more intelligent.

What are you talking about? Where do you pick up people flaming and conspiring against KK? Closest thing was me saying what I thought. "'BIG GUYS' take their dream away..."? Alot of MMORPG's out there started as small guys and turned into big guys. When has one ever lost their dream to the "BIG GUYS"? Spelling or grammar? I was pointing out where in the rules it might be against selling neocron assets online.

[Heavyporker]

hmmm.. import and export as regards neocron.. hmm...

Maybe players' time is an import? Freebie trials an export?

Dunno..

be interesting to see how that pans out, I'd love to see Neocron's economy undergo an analysis.

[whifix]

Wouldn't neocrons import be our money and export be the client, updates(both engine wise and content) and server access?

[jernau]

An export has to remove a commodity or service and bring in money (in-game money that is).
An import has to add a commodity and remove money/value from circulation.

Nothing really meets both criteria of either function.

NPC traders are the closest thing as you could assume they buy and sell wares outside the player-visible world. However the items sold to them are often spontaneously generated without limits (eg loot drops) so you end up with theoretically infinite exports pouring money into the economy without depleting a resource or requiring an import to sustain them. If only value-added items (eg crafted weapons) were taken into account you could possibly add man-hours in to balance it and call that an export but it would be almost impossible to do so.

You could design NPCs that emulate an import/export system by simulating other markets and the game's interaction with them. They would then adjust their buying and selling positions to fit. For example not buying any more APCs because their markets are saturated or selling fusion pistols dirt cheap because "simulated nation 1" has made too many and no-one wants them. While this wouldn't create real imports and exports it could apply similar forces onto a game economy.

I doubt any MMO will do this however as it would be a nightmare making the system balance so the effects were noticable to the majority of players without letting a few rich and organised players dominate it to their advantage. Larger populations make that problem shrink as the %age of total wealth in individual player's control drops off slowly with increased population but then you will find the player-driven markets are more dominant than the NPC ones.

[virgil caine]

My previous post was not directed at anyone in particular. I was simply stating my opinion : While mistakes have been made and deadlines missed KK has no reason to do anything but try to make people happy. The dark conspiracy to ruin some peoples fun just does not exist.