Safezones (Clubs, Bum Asylum, HQs)

[Viper 911]

I just feel in a time where certain types of players are trying convince players to encourage players to rip out LE's, doing things that encourages the opposite is maybe not the best approach, also on how often you likely to get ganked, I actually feel it's also dependent on character class to a degree, some class's can potentially escape, and some class's vendors for items/armor are more dangerous to purchase due to vendor placement. IE monks and PP.

[drenergetico]

I agree. Still remember when Plaza 1 was not a SZ.
Today, due to low population, would maintain P1 but others you mentioned (and HQ and so) should not be, even MB.

[Odimara Orca]

I also agree, Zonewhoring into Clubs should be disabled and would make PP PvP way more interesting.

But lvling hot spots like MB might be nice to stay safe. Else I already see Ufail grieving bambis everyday ;-)

HQ's as non safe zones I agree with.

Epic Mission NPCs, FSM and Recruiters should take no damage though.

[Odimara Orca]

Yes. There's really no reason that copbots shouldn't be able to be killed. You're telling me that my fucking amazing, rare weapon can't dent a copbot's armor, but their standard copbot plasma rifle melts my face off in seconds?

Same with standard guards in the HQ.

Are you guys really afraid of a couple copbots and guards dying, and somehow it will destroy the world if they do?

It makes more sense for stormbots to be OP as they are the militarized version, but not copbots.

I agree. Gaining XP and Symp from HQ guards would also be nice! Maybe there's even the possibility of adding a "Captain of the Guard" kind of HQ mob, which drops a new kind of rare or rareparts for every faction?

There would be quite a lot of possibilities here to expand content.

[Drake6k]

So, since Zoltan made HQs into non-safe zones to try out (thank you!) the only people I've seen affected was one tradeskiller that didn't know and my own clan trying to zone-whore into DRE HQ and dying because we forgot, lol. I love it.

I do find it odd that HQs would get adjusted before PP clubs and Bum Asylum, those being in the shady parts of town. It would also be cool if the strippers were killable (no SL loss) so we could fire wocket launchers inside the club and accidentally murder a handful of them, would add to the entertainment.

[drenergetico]

I was talking about this with another player, he is a trader and is very worried about the removal of safe zones.

Let me detail some points of this conversation, so you will take it as a starting point... there are two premises:

1) I love PvP and Im a pker, no matter the situation, op wars, duel, arena, infiltration, excepting ganking newbies of course.
2) He is a trader and love to trade, sell, social and relationships.

Neocron is a dystopia, things have not gone fine for the world and it is quite insecure, even some places of the city are... listen, can you hear it ?... "dangerous criminals sighted inside the inner city limits ". That is one of the reasons to open SZ to combat, the other is to satisfy people like me (PvPer) and to avoid the "zone whore" kids.

But, traders does not like combat, they do not like surprises, they even do not like to be in danger. My friend allege that there must be SZ because every game must have a secure zone for traders and because there have to be a definitive power represented by the game, in this case, a corporative plaza or HQs where enemies can not attack.

On my side, I proposed that NC world should be opened and sandbox, this freedom will probably create some interesting situations like mercs that protect traders, traders paying to bounty hunters to achive a revenge, groups raiding inner zones of the city, to defend HQs against enemies... and many other.

So, how devs should manage the enviroment to make these two kind of profile happy and playing ?, is a very hard to balance ingredient, too much PvP will pull out traders and a low PvP quality will reduce the exciting, so PvP players will leave. NC population are not much, so, any movement may have a hard effect.

As I said, I like confrontation and excitement, enjoyed playing games like Rust (you can be raided even when not connected) and Nether (SZ may be disconnected without notice), even played games where your apartment could be hacked (will not say the name here). So, if you ask me, I probably would say: "release the dogs of war", but we all need traders, NC need that kind of players too, not only to imp or research, because they are a part of the population, if you realize, they make Plaza 1 vibrant and a real city... love that too.

Should be finishing this post, too much to read, sorry, but just let me to add one more comment. Safe zones should not be opened till security and penal system are at a proper level. I think that devs should increase the number of cop bots in some city locations. That will let players or groups to attack but with a very high level of risk, because police and security forces (in case of HQ) will be enough to counter it allowing traders to run, ask for protection and of course, sometimes to die... why not. In this scenary, players would have to freedom to make attacks and pay the price, on the other side traders will have some zones with very good security but not safe.

Again, traders are important as they are a part of population, do not think that would be any trouble if a trader gets killed from time to time, but if they are ganked in a daily basis, they will left for sure. Some people like games where you can play without combat, NC has some features that may attract those players, this should be taken in consideration.

Other topic in consideration would be the penal system aside of the soul light and how to manage that kind of crimes, but, not now... thank you for reading

[Hammer]

Neocron is a game fokused on pvp Not on trading Or crafting .i also like pve and trading, but i dont Need more than p1 as safezone for my traders. If i need to travel in City, i Use an obliterator. Also in hqs. If i like to run missis in some hq, ich also Can use stealth when a non le Player come to lokal.

And than There is the law enforcer. Use this Feature if you never like to have some Adrenalin

[Celt]

Neocron is a game fokused on pvp Not on trading Or crafting .i also like pve and trading, but i dont Need more than p1 as safezone for my traders. If i need to travel in City, i Use an obliterator. Also in hqs. If i like to run missis in some hq, ich also Can use stealth when a non le Player come to lokal.

And than There is the law enforcer. Use this Feature if you never like to have some Adrenalin

The vast majority of players of both NC1 and NC2 were PVPers second, at best.

The argument that "NC is a PVP game we must make it as unfriendly as possible to anyone who might want to do other things than PVP" is a bloody stupid one. In that case, enjoy your game with all of 10 players who just insult each other on chat.

All of the city should be a safezone again. HQs shouldn't be, MB shouldn't be. Just like it was in the heyday of NC.

New players, or players who don't pvp often, should have a handful of zones that they can feel safe in. You have 99% of the zones of NC to PVP in, stop being so selfish.

[DIS]

The vast majority of players of both NC1 and NC2 were PVPers second, at best.

The argument that "NC is a PVP game we must make it as unfriendly as possible to anyone who might want to do other things than PVP" is a bloody stupid one. In that case, enjoy your game with all of 10 players who just insult each other on chat.

All of the city should be a safezone again. HQs shouldn't be, MB shouldn't be. Just like it was in the heyday of NC.

New players, or players who don't pvp often, should have a handful of zones that they can feel safe in. You have 99% of the zones of NC to PVP in, stop being so selfish.

Is that not what the LE is for though? If a player does not want to risk being killed then they can keep the LE chip in, safe in the knowledge they can go anywhere they like without any repercussions.

The selfish thing here is to put the entire city on lock down and turn the game into Neobore, that will really encourage players to return. Majority of tradeskillers are spy's and have access to stealth or they are a monk and can self buff. But how much ganking actually goes on within the city not including pepper park? I personally feel it does not happen that often.

It's not about making the game unfriendly, its about balancing things out... I'd be fine for them to make Viarosso safe zones as a lot of new players start there, but plaza (apart from 1) and the other zones should be as they are now.

Off-topic but as I have repeated on so many threads, missions in the city sectors for players which provides item rewards to help them out would really go far and it will encourage them to explore more of the city and outzone. New players are easily overwhelmed or get bored of the grind at early stages, missions/quests would break that up and provide them with incentives to go on.

[Celt]

Is that not what the LE is for though? If a player does not want to risk being killed then they can keep the LE chip in, safe in the knowledge they can go anywhere they like without any repercussions.

No, the LE is to allow players to experience the world (to a limited degree) while being safe from PVP. Plaza/VR were about creating a safezone/hub both for new players to get to grips with the game and to allow existing players to mingle safe from PVP.

The selfish thing here is to put the entire city on lock down

"It's selfish to give non PVP players more than one safezone in an entire game".

Are you actually reading what you're writing? That's an incredibly dim thing to say.

and turn the game into Neobore

Plaza and VR were safezones at the height of Neocron's popularity. People didn't call it Neobore back then, so your point is clearly invalid.

that will really encourage players to return.

I'm glad you agree. Yes, in a small way, having a safe city will encourage players to return and more importantly, players to stick around.

Majority of tradeskillers are spy's and have access to stealth or they are a monk and can self buff.

Back in NC1/NC2 the majority of tradeskillers were nothing but 100% tradeskillers. Not 'hybrids'.

But how much ganking actually goes on within the city not including pepper park? I personally feel it does not happen that often.

Then what's your issue with extending safezones?

It's not about making the game unfriendly, its about balancing things out...

How is having 1 safezone vs 300+ non safezones 'balance'? Again, excellent perspective.

I'd be fine for them to make Viarosso safe zones as a lot of new players start there, but plaza (apart from 1) and the other zones should be as they are now.

Well, why don't you explain why you feel that way rather than nonsense about balance and neobore?

Christ, this forum sounds like an echo chamber half the time. "Neocron is PVP, there is nothing in Neocron but PVP, PVP must come first, PVP is the be all and end all" as if the vast, VAST majority of players through Neocron's history were anything more than casual halfhearted PVPers.

People on here really need to get a sense of perspective and realise that their views on what Neocron was and is, are not the only ones and indeed, counter-majoritan.

[DIS]

No, the LE is to allow players to experience the world (to a limited degree) while being safe from PVP. Plaza/VR were about creating a safezone/hub both for new players to get to grips with the game and to allow existing players to mingle safe from PVP.

There is nothing limted about it, other than some slight XP and money malus, they can still join non LE teams and they have access to the entire game world other than clans.

"It's selfish to give non PVP players more than one safezone in an entire game".

Are you actually reading what you're writing? That's an incredibly dim thing to say.

Don't be ridiculous, non PVP players have the LE option.

Plaza and VR were safezones at the height of Neocron's popularity. People didn't call it Neobore back then, so your point is clearly invalid.

No because the previous developer did not listen to the community back then, they ruined PVP by allowing constant zone line warping into safe zones and freeze weapons, I was part of NC1 at it's peak when raids in TH were a common occurance, did that put anyone off making an FA character? In-fact it brought FA together as a faction to deal with the gankers and encouraged some of the great clans of the day.

I'm glad you agree. Yes, in a small way, having a safe city will encourage players to return and more importantly, players to stick around.

You have to be willing to make allowances for everyone, but I do no think it will make as a much of a difference as you think.

Back in NC1/NC2 the majority of tradeskillers were nothing but 100% tradeskillers. Not 'hybrids'.

There were Spys, with access to stealth later in nc1, if you had a monk tradeskiller you could/can use PPU's to buff tradeskills and defence.

Then what's your issue with extending safezones?

I do not feel it is necessary.. example I want to hunt a low SL player in the city, but I can't even draw my guns... or I want to take revenge on another player who killed me previously in the wastes... plus I enjoy the fact that at any point I could get attacked, it whats make Neocron so unique compared to other MMO games.

How is having 1 safezone vs 300+ non safezones 'balance'? Again, excellent perspective.

Opinion, I am entitled to one..

Well, why don't you explain why you feel that way rather than nonsense about balance and neobore?

It's not nonsense, it's my opinion, I think your idea of turning NC into safezones is nonsense, but as a fellow forum member I'd not point that initially as its just rude.

Christ, this forum sounds like an echo chamber half the time. "Neocron is PVP, there is nothing in Neocron but PVP, PVP must come first, PVP is the be all and end all" as if the vast, VAST majority of players through Neocron's history were anything more than casual halfhearted PVPers.

So you're no different than the rest of us, NC is a PVE game, PVP is secondary, but you clearly prefer the limited PVE aspect of the game which is fine. I can assure you than the vast majority of players from NC1 enjoyed PVP, or certainly the ones who played on Pluto.

People on here really need to get a sense of perspective and realise that their views on what Neocron was and is, are not the only ones and indeed, counter-majoritan.

I agree, the more opinions the better, perhaps if more people spent some time on the forums to give feedback then the dev team would be able to steer the game to a more central direction that suits everyone, as it stands now, it suits me fine... but I give my opinion and take part in polls as they arise.

[Doc Holliday]

No safe zones means no zonewhoring. players banding together to protect traders would also bring a greater sense of community. That i think is critical to drawing people in.

when people leave jobs they always say its not the job i will miss its the people. why cant the same be said about social activities such as gaming?

[Farril]

Please do not confuse LE and Safezones. They serve completely different purposes and audiences.

My very own and personal opinion: Safezones do not have influence in Zonewhoring. If safe zones would b removed, fights would still be at zone borders for a quick escape. We have been there and seen that.

And then this is Neocron! the old citadel serving as shelter for what is left from mankind. If not to be safe in its innerst core, what would be the purpose of neocron anymore?
Btw I still fancy some faction wars in faction HQs

[DIS]

My very own and personal opinion: Safezones do not have influence in Zonewhoring. If safe zones would b removed, fights would still be at zone borders for a quick escape. We have been there and seen that.

Perhaps not in the way you would think, I'll give you an example.

I want to PVP in pepper park, I go there to hone my skills against other players who are there for the same reason, sometimes its friendly, sometimes its not... but its what makes Neocron great.

Then another player loses the upper hand, so he logs his alt PPU in the club and dual logs, he can then buff himself across the zone line and give himself a major PVP advantage.

If you were to make Plaza safe zones (not talking p1 here), but remove this element from clubs inside pepper park, you would get the same issue just at it was in NC1.

Zone whoring will always happen, no one is going to just accept their fate and will try to escape, its a pain but there is still a chance you can kill the player, going back to safezones will just make the problem worse.

I love Neocron's PVP, I know which clases I can take and which I cannot depending on my chosen character, but having players use PPU's in a safezone changes that, this is one reason why I do not like safe zones. P1 100% agree safe zone, shit i'd even say let viarosso be safe too if it keeps new players happy, but safezones anywhere else is just unwanted and causes player frustration for reasons mentioned above.

[Drake6k]

My very own and personal opinion: Safezones do not have influence in Zonewhoring. If safe zones would b removed, fights would still be at zone borders for a quick escape. We have been there and seen that.

I pvp in PP1 every single day and I completely disagree with "Safezones do not have influence in zonewhoring."

People will still zonewhore, but if you have two people, one goes in, one stays out, they won't get away.

The reason I use kamis so much in PP1 is because it ends fights when the loser would otherwise run through into a safe zone. Nothing frustrates me more than winning fights and having them run into safe zone every single time.

I would even make all the dungeons in Pepper Park into city sectors instead of dungeon sectors. People killing noobs in Pepper Park sewers ISN'T an issue. It's a shit place to level and most people use LEs in the first place.

Who are you protecting? The mythical non-LE noobs that level up in Pepper Park sewers? Or the large portion of oldschool loyal players who take PvP seriously and keep this game afloat.