New Patch ?

[Pink Panther]

I guess everyone is cool with that then?

I play this game with the most skilled and knowledgeable pvp players. The dev team has not asked one single relevant person what the issues even are. We have notebooks full of setups and years of experience. You should be asking US what the problem is instead of sorting through irrelevant opinions that are simply wrong or biased. We need a player counsel, not continued dilution of the game by bad judgements. Walker, Mayhem, Warlok, Wowz, Dasore, Smurf, Tino, Strife, Kami, Invinci, Mace. Ask anyone of these guys what is unbalanced and we will all tell you the same thing. Ask the best and get the best help. My apologies to the few names I missed but you prob got banned for being good at NC.

[Dropout]

I play this game with the most skilled and knowledgeable pvp players. The dev team has not asked one single relevant person what the issues even are. We have notebooks full of setups and years of experience. You should be asking US what the problem is instead of sorting through irrelevant opinions that are simply wrong or biased. We need a player counsel, not continued dilution of the game by bad judgements. Walker, Mayhem, Warlok, Wowz, Dasore, Smurf, Tino, Strife, Kami, Invinci, Mace. Ask anyone of these guys what is unbalanced and we will all tell you the same thing. Ask the best and get the best help. My apologies to the few names I missed but you prob got banned for being good at NC.

<3

And yeah I agree. Most of these balance changes/ideas have been made 100% by the Dev team (correct me, if Im wrong).
And eventhough the Dev team might have access to all the numbers, numbers REALLY dont mean much, when the weapons are as different as they are.
And dont get me started on implants.. And armor (fucking PA's!!).. and vehicles ..and..and..and....

Unfortunately I dont think many of the mentioned PvP'ers are very active on the forum though.
And that sadly leads to bad choices being made, when we finally are asked.

[William Antrim]

You don't need the opinions of the community when you're balancing according to Tl. That is a tangible asset, no opinions mean one iota.

Testing is needed by the population when the changes hit. Listening to experts in the community got nc in the state it's in.


The current changes are years old you don't need just the current crop of experts to comment on that. It is plain for all to see. If the game goes back to something akin to nc1 balancing but improved and without the bugs it stands as good a chance as any of surviving.

That formula worked. A host of mess ups post nc2 are what made the population dwindle after that time.

Balancing is one thing but that won't fix everything. More needs to be done for the casual pvper too.

[Pink Panther]

You don't need the opinions of the community when you're balancing according to Tl. That is a tangible asset, no opinions mean one iota.

Testing is needed by the population when the changes hit. Listening to experts in the community got nc in the state it's in.

[Edited]

[William Antrim]

You understand the difference between an opinion from an individual and a calculation from a computer don't you? An opinion is open to human bias. A computer or an equation generally is not.

When the game patches then provide feedback but name dropping a few players who PvP this week doesn't give you any more credibility today than anyone else here.

Years ago kk consulted people in the community. It didn't work out too well. I'm concerned that it might happen again - nobody can come right in here professing to be the know all and fix all expert. It doesn't lend any kind of belief in credibility bud.

[hudsonbeck]

I seriously hope this is a joke…

I play this game with the most skilled and knowledgeable pvp players. The dev team has not asked one single relevant person what the issues even are.

You may play with the “most skilled and knowledgeable pvp players.” of today but are you expecting that to automatically grant you immediate and absolute credit and worth?
The Dev team has asked everyone for their opinion. There are entire forums dedicated to ideas & bugs.
Also, being a self-reported “most skilled and knowledgeable pvp player.” Doesn’t make you the only group of “relevant” players. Seriously how self-imposed importance and narcissistic are you?

We have notebooks full of setups and years of experience. You should be asking US what the problem is instead of sorting through irrelevant opinions that are simply wrong or biased.

Again, they are asking for your feedback/ideas/testing. They are asking everyone for this information. They cannot force you or anyone to come participate. It is your choice to stay silent, but being silent takes away your right to bitch.

We need a player counsel, not continued dilution of the game by bad judgements. Walker, Mayhem, Warlok, Wowz, Dasore, Smurf, Tino, Strife, Kami, Invinci, Mace. Ask anyone of these guys what is unbalanced and we will all tell you the same thing. Ask the best and get the best help.

Playing a game for hours upon hours, having good hand/eye coordination, having low latency, and sharing/combining setups for PVP does not make you a game balance expert. Seriously? [/QUOTE]

My apologies to the few names I missed but you prob got banned for being good at NC.

I had to laugh at this… Players weren’t arbitrarily banned. They were banned for specific reasons: hacking/client modification, stealing, possessing items they should never have had, just to name a few.
I use to respect many of these players until I found out they had many unfair advantages. I even share a birthdate with one of them(day not year). I have no respect for any of these people you speak of…
Contribute positively if you want to change the game but don’t come here as a newly registered forum member and bitch/complain/put people down and tell everyone how fucking important you are…

[Powerpunsh]

99% of the community doesnt even understand the complexivity of a balancing depends on their game mechanic. Its not just buff weapon x or nerf shield y. Its much more and if you understand the progress which has been done on Vendeena you will understand and would give credits for what is going on behind the szenes. Be patient.

[BlueRobot]

I smell flame but here're my 50 cents.

99% of the community doesnt even understand the complexivity of a balancing depends on their game mechanic. Its not just buff weapon x or nerf shield y. Its much more and if you understand the progress which has been done on Vendeena you will understand and would give credits for what is going on behind the szenes. Be patient.

Actually you could've also tried to just fix the balance by making small adjustments one after another to the already existing system instead of complicating everything as much as possible. But it's the Dev Team's choice and I'm not going to bitch about it before i even saw anything
But chances are, if it's as complex as you depict it, it's going to have a hard time getting adjusted to the "neocron reality".

Walker, Mayhem, Warlok, Wowz, Dasore, Smurf, Tino, Strife, Kami, Invinci, Mace.

LOL
I still have to grin when i read this list 3 hours later.
edit:actually had to lough 3 hours later

[Divide]

Hello there egotists, your king is about to speak:

You don't know everything. You don't know the answer to what ails you. You don't know what to fix, specifically, until you use them thar mathematicals. You don't know who got banned or why unless you are both the person who got banned, and the KK/NST rep who performed the banning. As someone who has been on the receiving end of a ban, I can promise you what the player base will say about you will have varying ranges of truth... Usually none, though. I personally know players on 'that list' and can speak to their playstyle and their hacktitude. I'll let you know right now that whatever you think know about them is probably wrong.

Take what you think you know and shove it. You get answers by asking questions and exploring the responses, not by asserting your assumptions.


/edit:
To contribute to the actual thread, I believe that users should drive focus and numbers should drive results. Once that is done, you do it all over again. And Again. And Again.
This is the development model that the gaming industry, and largely the software industry as a whole, has been pushing to achieve for years. This is how Valve has come to become who they are today. If you even try to dispute that, there are no more words for you. Words are lost on you, like sand upon an ocean floor.

[Powerpunsh]

Nah i dont flame. But sayin the best knows the most or should have been asked what to do is just stupid. Lets wait for the next deployment and check what we can adjust.

[Drachenpaladin]

Gotta love the self-righteousness. How can people expect to be asked or considered if they keep their shit only to them-selfs? You got notebooks full of what? Has a single letter been forwarded to the dev team? How do expect to be considered if you don't give a fucking meep until its almost too late?
I haven't seen a single page of that here on the forums, you might want to enlighten us all with your knowledge.

Put your claims to the table, mates.

[Divide]

You got notebooks full of what?

binders full of women, and such

[Bragi]

Without replying to any post specifically, I will say a few things.

The game mechanics are far more complex than people realise and the way different factors affect weapons of the same type can vary, let alone different weapon types.

Our current approach is a mathematical one. It is the sowing of the seeds, a base to work from. Getting this part right is critical. This is outwardly a very 'internal' affair and can seem that community input is under-valued. This is not the case; the last two deployments have - through player input - exposed the problems that are being currently eliminated. Namely the way sub-skills affect DPM in an inconsistent manner as previously mentioned in the balance forum.

Beyond that foundation laying (which includes not just the weapon behaviour, but the armour, implant and PA systems, which as I and others have said, is not conductive to the degree of PvP-viable setup choice we want) is where the real community input begins.
Things like PPUs, Hybrids, class roles, stealth and the difference between solo/small number and OP fight-level PvP (if any).
All of which is quite subjective and complex.

Saying that it could take years to complete sounds like a cop-out on our part, and while we want to get as much done as possible as soon as possible, the process will not be rushed or simple.

It should also be mentioned that declaring that Neocron is balanced by any party (be it developers or players) is arguably a pointless, premature, reckless and potentially unachievable goal. There will always be something to improve. Each step might be smaller than the last (like taking a step half as long as the one previous towards something), but there will always be scope for improvement.

You will see activity in the near future, at least on the test server(s).
Saying 'Please be patient' may sound condescending, but there's not much else that can be said.

The next set of changes will require community input; so when it comes along, get on Sparta and tell us what you think.

[Ivan Eres]

99% of the community doesnt even understand the complexivity of a balancing depends on their game mechanic. Its not just buff weapon x or nerf shield y.[...]

Or add dmg bonus to rare z.

Yes, you are right. And this kind of thinking brought us here and fucked up the balance completely over the years.

In Germany we have a word that describes this kind of approach, and we call it "Flickschusterei". However, I dunno the translation for it.

That's what had to be cleaned up first. Now the NST is establishing a reliable base to work with.

After this has succeeded we will see a lot of progress.

[Drachenpaladin]

In Germany we have a word that describes this kind of approach, and we call it "Flickschusterei". However, I dunno the translation for it.

Workaround or Hotfix^^