how to get rid of pesky LEd droners

[Faid]

Are you aiming that at me? Because I am the only other person posting here. No neither of my tradeskillers have ever levelled with drones. I took both of them rhinoing and then sat and did the boring as hell research and construct missions in my downtime.

I wasn't aiming that at you William but rather at all the anti-LE sentiment that has popped up recently on these forums. You may very well be apart of the one percent that doesn't level spys with drones. There's no need to get angry, I honestly meant no offense. The very title of this thread speaks volumes to the over all tone of this subject. It's getting a bit stupid at this point.

[William Antrim]

Im not angry in the slightest. Just seemed out of character thats all. The reason there is any anti-le sentiment is due to actions like that which I described. It is the abuse of the mechanism (though this is a matter of debate as to whether it actually constitutes abuse I guess) which makes people dislike the LE. As a protection method to help noobs in the game, I am ALL for it. 100%.

The problem is people who hide behind it calling out others and calling them twats in this thread that irks me some.

[Jodo]

As has already been pointed out, the LE isn't the problem (nor are the people really as there will always be dicks). It's the zone reset that has issues. I think once the "Boss" has been defeated there should be a timed reset of everything in the zone, including runners. Two mins to loot everything and all runners positions (logged in or otherwise) gets reset to the beginning and all mobs are re-spawned.

[Load]

As has already been pointed out, the LE isn't the problem (nor are the people really as there will always be dicks).

LE is definitely the problem - dicks in leveling areas with no LE will get pk'd more often than not - the LE makes some players exponentially more cuntish as there are no fears of repercussions.

Cave wise because at the moment i guess the focus is on chaos caves just fill the back room on the left with boxes and barrels at the top level and this should stop the relogging.

funnily enough I have no issue with people sprinting through the cave to try to get to the back because at least they face some sort of difficulty and penalty but with a few boxes and barrels in the aforementioned place this will probably stop too

[Torg]

theres a saying from ye olde times "MMOs would be great fun if there werent all those idiots". the problem isnt the LE, its the anti-social wannabe psychopaths. ganking un-LEd noobs and not leaving a cave even when being asked kindly are two sides of the same thing. we should implement anti-anti-social measures instead... but wait: being bad (in very tight limits) is part of the game. killing allieds, hacking belts (and stealing valuable drop), frauding people by pretending to be a trader guy, thats all part of the game. and thats a good thing, because games are also there to let us do things not ok at all in meatspace.

so my position here: if anyone treats you badly in Neocron (within game rules), deal with it and dont demand a serious change of game rules. reason: you dont want to be looked upon as a crybaby.

exploitable spots are somewhat easy to remove, have been removed in the past and will be dealt with in the future. no reason to get upset.

i think its also important to accept theres different playstyles, as can be learned from this thread, and others.

[Load]

theres a saying from ye olde times "MMOs would be great fun if there werent all those idiots". the problem isnt the LE, its the anti-social wannabe psychopaths. ganking un-LEd noobs and not leaving a cave even when being asked kindly are two sides of the same thing. we should implement anti-anti-social measures instead... but wait: being bad (in very tight limits) is part of the game. killing allieds, hacking belts (and stealing valuable drop), frauding people by pretending to be a trader guy, thats all part of the game. and thats a good thing, because games are also there to let us do things not ok at all in meatspace.

for me the scamming, pking noobs, allied attacking is all part of playing neocron - the whole cyberpunk post apocalyptic not knowing who to trust never knowing if someone is going to come along and kill you allied or not is part of the reason i play, the risk and the adrenaline. from an RP perspective allied killing is not great and with the numbers on the server isnt really needed.

blocking a cave because your an asshole is on a whole other level to this and with the LE they can do this without any risk of repercussion - I remember once back in NC1 i purposefully blocked the CRP chaos cave from respawning with a few mates without LE in to try and get some people in to pk us - sure its not great (we did RP a cave tax) but then about 8 or 9 people came and we ended up having an epic fight after which we left. the LE kills this all together

[IanKett]

Whining about crap is in gamers blood I think like an STD from playing too many games haha

[Faid]

blocking a cave because your an asshole is on a whole other level to this and with the LE they can do this without any risk of repercussion - I remember once back in NC1 i purposefully blocked the CRP chaos cave from respawning with a few mates without LE in to try and get some people in to pk us - sure its not great (we did RP a cave tax) but then about 8 or 9 people came and we ended up having an epic fight after which we left. the LE kills this all together

There is some risk of repercussion because it is against the game rules to block a cave, you could potentially be banned for it. Caves are not there for you and your mates to PK in, in fact they are specifically designed to not pvp in. 9 times out of 10 the real dicks in this game are un-LE'd looking to ruin people's leveling experience, as you stated above thats exactly what you and your mates like to do. You say the LE "kills" this experience for you lol

As I said before, this is getting stupid...

[Biglines]

how about people who use their LE to exploit the gamemechanics (for example blocking caves), get their LE forcibly removed? Solves the problem of people being dicks with it, and still leaves in all the advantages of the LE for people who just want to pve. excessive use of it would be subject to normal exploit penalties.

[Load]

There is some risk of repercussion because it is against the game rules to block a cave, you could potentially be banned for it. Caves are not there for you and your mates to PK in, in fact they are specifically designed to not pvp in. 9 times out of 10 the real dicks in this game are un-LE'd looking to ruin people's leveling experience

if they are specifically designed not to pvp in why is there no SL loss in regants? and Chaos caves AFAIK?
Blocking is one thing - getting people to fight you before you leave is something else

I agree with Biglines comment - sound like a great idea

[L0KI]

Controversial opinion : Drop the fucking LE from the game all together. This is Neocron, not a fantasy PVE server.

At the very least, make them significantly less competitive. Non-LE'd players put themselves at greater risk in zones like Mc5, as not only do they have to look out for ridiculously high-powered mobs, but also roaming gangs of violent nomads.

As it stands (and has for years), LE'd players gain significant advantages, which in my opinion is positively reinforcing cowardice (and in many cases, griefing) behaviour.

My final comment on this; When MJS was in charge of the game, the LE gave an XP disadvantage and couldn't be put back in after xx/30. What does that tell you about his vision for Neocron?

[DR REED]

Controversial opinion : Drop the fucking LE from the game all together. This is Neocron, not a fantasy PVE server.

At the very least, make them significantly less competitive. Non-LE'd players put themselves at greater risk in zones like Mc5, as not only do they have to look out for ridiculously high-powered mobs, but also roaming gangs of violent nomads.

As it stands (and has for years), LE'd players gain significant advantages, which in my opinion is positively reinforcing cowardice (and in many cases, griefing) behaviour.

My final comment on this; When MJS was in charge of the game, the LE gave an XP disadvantage and couldn't be put back in after xx/30. What does that tell you about his vision for Neocron?

It tells me a stroy of FAILURE!

Why do you think MJS isn't there anymore and no game concept like this or what you describe is successful on the market ?

It's a perversion of the truth to show LE'd players as "Griefers". It's vice versa the idiots of after-work-gankers, which complete ignore any RP content of the game and ganking erverything which is not "at 3 up at a tree", which are the most significant problem of this very, very competitive game.

And the second big mistake of people like you is to believe that in a (non-fantasy) dark post-apokalyptic atmosphere 100% anarchy would work and could be a system for socialisation. It would not and go on the street and free kill everyone isn't realistic at all. It is sad to see permanently people try to ruin this interesting game via changing it in a special form of Counter Strike or so

This thread provoke a very destructive discussion with a lot of trolling, it was said enough that blocking a cave (LE or not) is a bannable act and one could call a GM, which really works fine atm. The discussion about a LE does not lead to a better game.

Reed

[Torg]

When MJS was in charge of the game, the LE gave an XP disadvantage and couldn't be put back in after xx/30.

not true, the disadvantage was removed few weeks after NC1 retail, while the L30-reimplanting-thing was introduced much later. would you prefer to play on neptune, loki?

[William Antrim]

The LE disadvantage was not removed until the middle of 2004. A year into retail. Or even longer. P.s the reason MJS is not the head of the company any more has nothing to do with the LE. It is a myriad of other things and I would estimate that 90% of them are not anything to do with anything that was changed IN the game.

[Netphreak]

... ridiculously high-powered mobs, ....

While I disagree with removing the LE completely, the point I quoted is the main reason I as a spy chose droning as my method for leveling.
It's boring as hell and I hate it, but considering it seems almost every mob I would be leveling off can kill me in 2-4 hits, droning is the only viable way to level solo (when playing time is very limited due to RL).

Now if we add on to this, removing your LE while leveling via droning then, good luck. As your meat sack will be a free for all.

I would rather have some kind of malus on the LE than remove it.

As I've said many times before mob danage across the board really needs addressing. As does weapon damage.
I'm hoping these are next on the devs list.