1. #46

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    Took a look on vedeena about the armor changes. I have to say good job to you all !

    Those new PA and armors looks fantastic and I can't wait to see those on retail.

  2. #47

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    I remember WOW using separated PVP and PVE damage for a while but I'm not sure whether it achieved what it was meant for since they removed it ultimately one or two Addons ago.

    Actually, if there really was a split in damage then I'd like to see them go all the way and level PVP damage completely for ALL tech levels. Make TL only relevant for PVE.
    That way PvPers are competitive right out of the gutter, everything the "unlock" would become a sidegrade, enabling diversity instead of effectiveness. Tho I'm not sure if people here could handle such a progressive design idea
    On the other hand this would probably put NC too close to conventional FPSs... idk.
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
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  3. #48

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    Without implying the huge amount of work that such thing would require.

    That would go against the essence of neocron which virtual reality, not arena gaming.
    If you take your gun and it deals 100dmg to a naked mob, it should do 100 to a naked player, as long as they have similar resists.

    Diving the world into PvE or PvP gamerule such as you imply would alter the gameplay completely to give more balance in a "competitive environement" sure, but NC is not a true arena-FPS. It's a virtual world.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fremen View Post
    Diving the world into PvE or PvP gamerule such as you imply would alter the gameplay completely to give more balance in a "competitive environement" sure, but NC is not a true arena-FPS. It's a virtual world.
    I don't have the impression that the part of the PVP crowd, that has been the most vocal in the past few months and years; that said part gives two shits about that.
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danae
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  5. #50
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    I've seen many a good games RUINED by the 'pvp balancing' where they try to make everyone have the same stats etc. Yea that is one way to add balance, but that's not good balance. That forms a piece of shit cookie cutter, and Neocron is more than that, so much more. Especially in a game like Neocron where you have to farm rare parts, then craft and hope you get a good roll and slots... If you removed the purpose for that the game would turn into a very shitty counterstrike with no purpose to do anything past crafting a mendicant rifle/pistol from trash and just going off with that. Keep in mind this is a MMOfps, not just an fps, perpetual stats and player inventories, along with the differences these bring to each player, are extremely important.



    Splitting pve and pvp dmg types wouldn't break any type of immersion or RP sense, it would just make balancing easier. For example you could set a holy thunderstorm(monk barrel) to hit mobs for 300+ as it used to but then when it hits a player instead of being ridiculously OP it only hits them for 20-30's or some such. It would make balancing things easier as usually when you make a change to damage you have to consider what impacts this will have for both PvE and PvP, and you have to be careful as to not break the function for either environment. This is where I've seen A LOT of issues both in Neocron and in other games in the past. This would make it easier for them to set pvp balance right and at the same time to make more difficult encounters for pve, due to engine limitations there will never be any boss fights similar to mmorpg's BUT you can tailor boss fights to require more specified PVE based gear thus making it more of a challenge to get to/do certain end game pve events.




    I don't have the impression that the part of the PVP crowd, that has been the most vocal in the past few months and years; that said part gives two shits about that.
    Keep in mind that "pvp crowd" is a tiny group of people and they're still in the process of leaving due to the population being as small as it is and them growing tired of fighting the same people. You can not cater to a group of 20-30 people especially when half don't even play actively. A product must be delivered that is more widely liked so that the population can rise once again. That being said only the newer and poor pvpers would like this change as most people in game already have a wide accumulation of wealth and a flat balancing of all guns for pvp would ruin quite literally hundreds of hours worth of grinding.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerocytes View Post
    That being said only the newer and poor pvpers would like this change as most people in game already have a wide accumulation of wealth and a flat balancing of all guns for pvp would ruin quite literally hundreds of hours worth of grinding.
    Well, I don't think that a flattened endgame curve for weapons would necessarily make their acquisition pointless IF the playstyle of the guns offers variety.
    On the other hand, previously we had a steep balancing curve and what was used? Devo and Rava on Tanks. Dissi and AK on Spies. The very cookie cutter situation apparently nobody wants.

    The thing is, people always bash Counter Strike - BUT ITS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL FPS OUT THERE!
    The gunplay there is exquisite. It manages to provide the players with a very wide and diverse range of guns actually, so they not only cater to personal preference, they also allow players to pick the right tool for the right situation. This is waht most people forget about the game, they only see the round based gameplay and brush it off.

    But a low entry level for PVP is absolutely essential for a lively PVP scene. Even more, if all it takes for people to stay competitive against other players is a Mendicant Rifle from trash, then thats a plus. Because only THEN you have REAL open world PVP, everywhere. If players with low level chars have a fair chance against capped chars there would be less need for stuff like the Law Enforcer.

    Personally, I have no problem in making the Rare Tier actually RARE and turn them into high value commodities, nice-to-have items.Again, CS:GO has ultra rare skins that do nothing but are handled for hundreds of €€€ of hard cash... just to show off your bling. Think about it.

    Or, if that doesn't suffice, give them really weird abilities that change the playstile completely. Heal Guns! Slow moving Fireball of Death. Position Swap Lightning...
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danae
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  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin View Post
    Well, I don't think that a flattened endgame curve for weapons would necessarily make their acquisition pointless IF the playstyle of the guns offers variety.
    ...
    Agreed with you. Indeed having a similar "DPS" for rares of equal TL doesn't mean making the end game weapons boring.
    Each gun will have its very own identity, because of how it plays, its range, its ammo type, bullet per mag, frequency, alpha damage, aim speed and finally style. Same DPS but differnt kind of weapons. That's balance and variety.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin View Post
    ...
    The thing is, people always bash Counter Strike - BUT ITS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL FPS OUT THERE!
    The gunplay there is exquisite. It manages to provide the players with a very wide and diverse range of guns actually, so they not only cater to personal preference, they also allow players to pick the right tool for the right situation.
    ...
    Also love Counterstirke, but it's such a diferent game genre that it's hard to see any application on NC...
    Sure the weapon economy is very interesting and involve a lot of tactical choices and understanding of how the game works, yet the game revolves around a "Round based" gameplay with economy and money reward. It's all balanced around that in its competitive aspect, yet again nothing to do with NC. :-/

    I think we should focus on topic, which is trying to balance the current game while keeping in mind of what is possible to do with what we have ! Currently, a few devs working only a few hours per week on a 100% volunteer involvement cannot rework the core of the game...

    So while it's awesome to speak about "how I'd love to see NC being rework from bottom up", it's not possible currently... Unless you can inject 1 million euro in KK's bank account.

    PS: so far we are going in a really good way, vedeena is a lot more fun than retail when we look at the new imp/weapon/armor/PA. It's well balanced, there is variety in builds we can make due to the ammo rework. Melee is finally competitive again. Most rare are usefull again... There is so much good stuff, we should be happy about it!
    Last edited by Fremen; 11-08-15 at 16:12.

  8. #53
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    Default Blog Balancing Phase 1 5 and 2

    I'd give the MG-34 a different sound that isnn't the 42's buzz, unless they really made similar firing sounds.

    And what rifle does the Heckenschuzte or whatever have? What does Heckenschutze even mean? Hell-shooter?

  9. #54
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    For starters, I am amazed it remembered my log in.

    Secondly... I'll try to explain this properly.

    NC1 the armor, and resistance mechanics were pretty simple, resistances covered the whole of the runner. NC2 (or 2.1), the system seemed overly complicated, with armor then a PA slot over the top, with some other bits and pieces.

    While having your armor giving you total resistance was 'reality breaking' it did make it easier to set up how to spec your character. That being said, maybe there should be a hybrid system between the two, I say that because it did seem that the weapon damage types ended up just being 1 or 2 in pvp.

    Heres my take on it;

    Currently there are 6 main damage types;
    Force.
    Pierce.
    Fire. (should be called Thermal)
    Xray.
    Energy.
    Poison.

    One specalist:
    Psi Damage.

    And one I feel that should be included:
    Acid.

    Making 8 resistance types, however armor should only cover 6 of them (not including helmets); Force, Pierce, Thermal, XRay, Energy, Acid.

    Poison should only be resisted by Con/Poison resist stat.
    Psi Damage should only be resisted by Int/Psi Resist/Helmets (just like 40k-ish).

    There should be 2 levels of armor:
    Clothing/outfit(whatever you want to call it, but its the underlayer).
    Armor (the outer armored layer)

    The clothing layer can have the following resists.
    Force.
    Thermal.
    Energy.
    Acid

    The Armor layer can have the following resists:
    Force.
    Pierce.
    Thermal.
    Xray.
    Energy.
    Acid.

    Crafting the clothing layer is done by using weaves, and for example you can place 4 weaves in the construction of the clothing item.

    If each weave gives +1 resistance you could for example place one of each weave:
    Force +1, Thermal, +1 Energy +1, Acid +1.

    OR

    Just use 4 of one type giving you:
    Force +4.

    Outer Armor would be made the same way, but with the ability of mod slots.

    Possible mods:
    Poison purge - reduces poison duration by 50% (- stackable)
    Reinforced - degrades at a slower rate (maybe + force/pierce)
    Pneumatic - + STR
    Carry Space - Bigger inventory
    Light - toggle torch/flashlight
    Lightweight - lower encumberance
    Grounded - + energy resist
    Laquered - + Xray resist
    Psi Field - + Psi resist/Duration
    Recall Relay - Takes 2 or 3 mod slots, burnt out on use - portable Gen Rep

    Helmets would give you resistance, and PSI resistance, could even make a circlet or laurel wreath that gives +PSR.

    This would allow for more visible outfits and less 1/4 looks, I would also like to see PA's being a little cumbersome, maybe slower to reach full sprint speed, not as fast turning circle etc. They serve a purpose, but shouldn't be the only option.

  10. #55
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    Have the damage type changes been added to Titan yet?
    Last edited by Fedai; 18-09-16 at 03:48.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedai View Post
    Have the damage type changes been added to Titan yet?
    Nope.

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  12. #57

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    Please see the test forums - http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumd...amp-Discussion.

    As this is such an old thread, please continue to discuss the current balancing in the latest patch notes thread - http://forum.neocron-game.com/showth...35-Patch-Notes
    Last edited by Bifrost; 18-09-16 at 11:15.
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