1. #16

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    Last edited by Trivaldi; 19-03-14 at 17:07. Reason: Off topic / Trolling / Reopening closed topics

  2. #17
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Thats a really interesting point actually.

    So what happens if he pays the tax on it then? What if we were to enter into said agreement knowing that the Government would take off its slice? If this was published ahead of time - a breakdown of the figures I mean including any kind of taxable issues - could it then be confirmed and registered like a 2nd income in the UK? We have a system where you get PAYE (pay as you earn) for your primary income (unless self employed etc) and then if you have any kind of 2ndary income (houses rented, 2nd jobs even in some cases) you can declare this and be taxed accordingly.

    This way I would estimate it is all above board.

    Obviously this is all assuming Zoltans complicity and consent.
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  3. #18

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    There are various obstacles to prevent money laundering and tax fraud(for real property and such). Which is why kickstarter never will work in germany

    There is a "gifting tax" for example, that kicks in after a certain value, to limit the amount of money being moved this way without the state getting its share. If I got that correct then among unrelated persons you can receive an amount of 20.000 over the course of 10 years without having to pay that tax.
    Now i guess we won't reach that amount but the question is how does that work with cross boarder-donations... what law applies here? In the USA for example it seems that the donor has to pay the taxes...

    Also i'm not entirely sure in how far all this wouldn't qualify as a business, after all with Zoltan being in charge of the server hes providing the players a service in return to their donations... so it wouldn't be a real donation, no?
    Thats where you would be supposed to create a registered organization or a booster club... but those again need to prove that they serve common public interest to receive a tax-free status...
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  4. #19
    CmyKK F4nb01 <3 aKe`cj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin View Post
    There are various obstacles to prevent money laundering and tax fraud(for real property and such). Which is why kickstarter never will work in germany
    Kickstarter is not meant to fund maintenance or upkeep anyway. They require you to pitch a product that can be delivered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin View Post
    There is a "gifting tax" for example, that kicks in after a certain value, to limit the amount of money being moved this way without the state getting its share. If I got that correct then among unrelated persons you can receive an amount of 20.000 over the course of 10 years without having to pay that tax.
    Now i guess we won't reach that amount but the question is how does that work with cross boarder-donations... what law applies here? In the USA for example it seems that the donor has to pay the taxes...
    Yep - thats what I lined out above. For cross-border donations: It does not matter what laws apply in other countries (it may matter to whoever chips in - but not for the NST). If either party resides in Germany, the tax office will demand its cut. As you say, it is not likely that the limit of 20000 EUR will be exceeded (assuming no other, non-NC related gifts or inheritance is made towards the person). On the other hand - NC won't have a great future if limited to acquiring 2000 EUR p.a.
    Is this what we aspire to? Where is Mr. Kirk - savior of NC - in all this? Who owns Neocron? Are there plans to exit the "struggle for survival" mode at any point or will NC just continue on as a hobbyist project on life support until someone pulls the plug?
    What is your vision for this project? Where do you see NC in 3 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin View Post
    Also i'm not entirely sure in how far all this wouldn't qualify as a business, after all with Zoltan being in charge of the server hes providing the players a service in return to their donations... so it wouldn't be a real donation, no?
    As pointed out before, I am curious if the chosen approach has been discussed with his tax office. For all I know, it is to be considered commercial and calls for a business registration - in theory, that is... nullum ius sine actione

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin View Post
    Thats where you would be supposed to create a registered organization or a booster club... but those again need to prove that they serve common public interest to receive a tax-free status...
    A non-profit that is not granted charitable status can still make a profit of 5000 EUR p.a. and sales up to and beyond 17500 EUR p.a., without having to pay a single Euro in taxes. The amount of work caused by bookkeeping and dealing with the tax office is just greater.
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  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by aKe`cj View Post
    Kickstarter is not meant to fund maintenance or upkeep anyway. They require you to pitch a product that can be delivered.
    I know, just wanted to tie that in because its related.
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  6. #21

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    Hello Folks,

    i think the volunteers deserve a funding of neocron as an entertainment product and for the work they invest in their free time. Its ridiculous to ask about a transparancy of the funding and EVEN if they profit of this thing, WOW, they do real work and invest ours and i think they should benefit for doing so.

    I've made my donation of 15€ monthly and by god, that equals three packs of cigarettes, 5 beers/shots or 15 Milka's. Its nothing and i am willing to pay for such a great game like neocron. first time i've played it is 12 years ago and i am still playing with my friends and folks, so basically i don't care if they spend the donated money for what they want.
    If you DONATE, you DONT ask for what its gonna be spend, its like gifting or do you ask your friends/family, if you have gifted money to them, on what they spend it and demanding a recipe? i think not.

    Btw. i've made neocron2.tumblr.com and i try to collect all neocron guides, tips and information i can get my hands on. Lately the downtimes of techhaven.org made me think of an alternative to techhaven.org. why not tumblr.com
    Enjoy and get the information you need

  7. #22
    I KEEEEELLLL YOUUU! NAPPER's Avatar
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    I would be more then happy to donate to this but not untill we have more Idea on time scales for patchs, upcoming events and possible new items.

    But you could always try selling unressed techs for real money say

    10 Unressed Techs £5
    25 Unressed Techs £15
    50 Unressed Techs £30

    or something then its still not pay to win and still no hope you can get the parts you need/want
    this is something i would pay for. I think this will get tech trading up and running again as well

  8. #23
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Well if you do that I want my rare pool to contain; rare shields, cs parts and disruptor parts maybe and dev parts and thats about all. I wouldnt pay £5 for 10 melee parts.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  9. #24
    I KEEEEELLLL YOUUU! NAPPER's Avatar
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    You ever used to get a sticker book when you were a kid and buy the packs for that one sticker you had been after for ages I would be buying a lot of parts for that one. but if it was Random Unressed techs then you would keep buying them

  10. #25
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I get what you are saying buddy and yes I DO remember the sticker book analogy. That made me chuckle some! Football cards - got that one got that one, need that one, NEED THAT ONE OMG!!

    Haha.

    I am gonna be honest and say it sounds DANGEROUSLY like a cash shop. As in you are buying items in a game. This to me is a business.

    Only because of the posts written above by (I presume and please correct me if I am wrong) a few informed German citizens and the tax laws in said country it might be construed as a business transaction. If this is the case then as a business transaction it is therefore subject to taxation.

    As we do not want the Taxman to take his (or her) slice then we do not want to see too much (any?) money lost to this.


    Anyway, see you saturday!
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  11. #26

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    How about we let the NST worry about all the details, legality, things they should/shouldn't offer, etc...
    They have simply provided a mechanism for people to donate should they be inclined. It's completely voluntary.

    I understand 'we' are typically analytical people by nature and have a deep need to explore every detail to exhaustion but it is not always necessary.

    Just look at the positivity from the community when the THN was experiencing trouble. They didn't even ask for help and yet 'we' came out of the wood work offering donations of material, time and monetary. This was done without question... Without Question. Compare that thread and unquestioned offerings to this thread...

    If you want to donate please do... If not, don't. If you are concerned or have a question it might be better to PM a NST member.

    My2cents & I will be donating because I want to and if THN needs something, I will gladly donate there as well.

  12. #27
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    No need to cap monthly donations if there's a roll over, as there's nothing saying that the same amount will be hit each month. I think the counter is a good idea as it'll make people know if we are falling short and kick them up the butt to donate more. If we are over, then great, it can go towards next month or possible other improvements down the line like fixing something that breaks and costs to have replaced just as an example (probably covered by the data center charge, but you never know when some random cost might pop up for something).
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  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by hudsonbeck View Post
    How about we let the NST worry about all the details, legality, things they should/shouldn't offer, etc...
    They have simply provided a mechanism for people to donate should they be inclined. It's completely voluntary.

    I understand 'we' are typically analytical people by nature and have a deep need to explore every detail to exhaustion but it is not always necessary.

    Just look at the positivity from the community when the THN was experiencing trouble. They didn't even ask for help and yet 'we' came out of the wood work offering donations of material, time and monetary. This was done without question... Without Question. Compare that thread and unquestioned offerings to this thread...

    If you want to donate please do... If not, don't. If you are concerned or have a question it might be better to PM a NST member.

    My2cents & I will be donating because I want to and if THN needs something, I will gladly donate there as well.
    Word! Don't worry, be happy

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathCultLegion View Post
    Word! Don't worry, be happy
    I agree. And be an advocate for NC and the NST. They need love too!

  15. #30
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    What happened to the donate link? Are donations still being taken?

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