LE & Vehicle Protection

[Faid]

Faid, I also doesn't think the new VHC rules are a problem and I think you're just whinning.

This ruleset fixes more than it breaks.

Serves you people right for using an LEd chars and VHC to grief others.

I hope this thread gets closed, we've been around the issue 2-3 times already.

I don't even Rhino, I have multiple capped un-le'd characters. The only Le'd people I have are tradeskillers who don't need to level anymore. This vehicle change doesn't effect me in the least. It effects the 75% of the server that are currently LE'd and it will effect them negatively. It is unfair, and unlike you and some others, I'm concerned with what is good for the game as a whole, not with how it effects me.

[Massaker]

There is another point that nobody discussed about before.

The LE-players that use drones. In the vehicle update for LE-players is the following sentense highlighted.
"The law enforcer only protects the player and NOT his belongings.

So now lets try to think another step forward. Vehicles count to belongings and how about the drones? The drones represents a remote controlled gun that if the drone get destroyed the player is still alive. For me it's a kind of properties too.
If vehicles will be attackable when a LE-player is in the vehicle I think the drones should be attackable too. At the moment there are a lot of LE-players with drones who pull the victims to a non-LE or LE-player and drop the drone if the victims are in range. After this the victims automatically attack the other players and kill them. That's really a kidding way to abuse players who want to level or farm rare parts in the mc5.

So all in all I think the drones should be attackable too.

[hatmankh]

Yes to the drones idea and armour counts as belongings too so we should be able to shoot a LE'd runner and damage his armour but not his health, this way we can shoot their armour down to 0%. Oh and gloves count too, they aren't really implants since you wear them, they aren't inside your body, we should be able to shoot a LE'd monk's CAG gloves down to 0 condition so they can't use their spells anymore.

I also believe LE'd runners should drop belts when they die, same as everyone else. It's a contradiction to say the LE doesn't protect belongings and yet when you die, you don't drop a belt, clearly it is protecting your belongings here.

It's a harsh world! Don't like it? Find a zone with no other runners or take out your LE.

[Assimilator]

It's a harsh world! Don't like it? Find a zone with no other runners or take out your LE.

It's really hard to sell the game to potential players with statements like that. This isn't EvE with its big bag of tricks and the sandbox to entice players to join. We're trying to prevent potential griefing tactics that might alienate the new player base.

[Dope]

This isn't EvE with its big bag of tricks and the sandbox to entice players to join.

Not flaming at all, but isn't this a sandbox with a fairly unique bag of tricks?" (Vehicles, hacking, droning, etc.)
I think so; Admittedly telling people to shove it is a tough sell for those that don't like PvP, but if PvP is an intended bit of game (lke it is in Eve) then it behooves the Devs and playerbase both to just say so.

[Assimilator]

Not flaming at all, but isn't this a sandbox with a fairly unique bag of tricks?" (Vehicles, hacking, droning, etc.)

No offense taken and a fair point, but due to the age of the game and lack of "modern conveniences" compared to other MMOs we just don't have as big of a mass appeal than most MMOs. Why risk alienating ourselves even more?

Setting and atmosphere aside, the end game OP fight PVP is definitely where I get the most out of NC (for me). Unfortunately for new players there's quite the hill to climb to reach that point... So why introduce a rule set that has potential to be used for griefing? I just think there's a better solution out there both in the short term and as a permanent solution.

Some players have said to just remove the LEs if they want a way to defend themselves. I think this rule set hurts the low to mid level players the most. Do you really think they'd remove the LE to defend themselves? How exactly does a mid level player defend themselves from a capped player?

Again, if LE players camping dead mobs is an issue look at changing the loot rights. If an unLE gunner is hurting others and is protected by a sitting in a LE vehicle look at changing the LE status of the users in the vehicle / not letting unLEs in.

[Ivan Eres]

Having enough money for a Rhino and for repair nanites means you are not a complete newb to the game anymore, in my opinion.

A Rhino can cost you up to 300k, and with 100 packs of nanites you've spent ca. 500k. This is a lot of money for a new player, believe me. I've been helping new playeres ever since and they even cannot afford to buy a new weapon at the vendor nor do they have the money to get them built. So if we really want to do something for the newbs it's helping them out with equipment in the start instead of changing rulesets that many of them don't care about until much later.

I reckon that if you've gotten that far in game you should be prepared for some of the dangers of the Wastelands. I think People will learn to cope with it especially when they are told about it by other players.

However, because there seems to be so much concern about the vehicle ruleset maybe the impact on the LE'd player can be lowered by making Rhinos for LE drivers always respawnable at the ASG, like the quad.

Of course one issue of this will be that LE players will very rarely need to buy a Rhino again, but this is the case anyhow if the vehicles cannot be attacked and destroyed by other players.

[nabbl]

Some players have said to just remove the LEs if they want a way to defend themselves. I think this rule set hurts the low to mid level players the most. Do you really think they'd remove the LE to defend themselves? How exactly does a mid level player defend themselves from a capped player?

Yes ... but Low-Mid leveled players should not go rhinoing and kill high leveled mobs should they?

I mean I can somehow understand that the newbie who just bought a hovertech won't find it that funny if his new vehicle gets shot down. But that is another thing. Vehicles should have better armor and maybe more hitpoints.

Maybe the patch should not be released with an according vehicle power change. But that is up to the devs. Fixing the LE exploits has a higher priority maybe.

[Netphreak]

Yes ... but Low-Mid leveled players should not go rhinoing and kill high leveled mobs should they?

I mean I can somehow understand that the newbie who just bought a hovertech won't find it that funny if his new vehicle gets shot down. But that is another thing. Vehicles should have better armor and maybe more hitpoints.

Maybe the patch should not be released with an according vehicle power change. But that is up to the devs. Fixing the LE exploits has a higher priority maybe.

There were some very good threads about changes that should be made to vehicles in order to encourage people to use them not that long ago.

• Lowering requirements,
• Allowing you to salvage parts from a blown up vehicle which contributes >50% of the parts to making a new one,
• Increasing armor and hit points of vehicles,
• Improving the handling of some vehicles
• Adjusting damage of attack vehicles making others viable again

If the above changes were made to vehicles then there would be viable alternatives to just using a Rhino.

[Faid]

You can't "fix LE'd exploits" by creating UN-LE'd exploits, which is what this vehicle change does.

All the Dev's have to do is change the loot rights rules. A mob can only be looted by the person or the team that killed it. This solves the LE'd rhino parking on our loot problem.

Make rhino's susceptible to damage if any of the occupants are UN-LE'd, whether it be the gunner, driver, or passengers. This solves the LE'd driver with UN-LE'd gunner problem. If the UN-LE'd gunner hops out kill him, if he doesn't hop out kill the rhino then kill him.

Make rhino's susceptible to damage in OP zones regardless of LE status of the occupants. This solves the rhino's blocking UG's at op fights problem.

All of these solutions would fix the current problems regarding LE's and vehicles without creating even more problems down the road. This would be a decent way of going about things.

[Brammers]

All the Dev's have to do is change the loot rights rules. A mob can only be looted by the person or the team that killed it. This solves the LE'd rhino parking on our loot problem.

Bad idea, that makes the problem worse the rhino can just sit there until the mob despawns. That idea also removes the ability for other players to loot unwanted mobs.

[Faid]

Bad idea, that makes the problem worse the rhino can just sit there until the mob despawns. That idea also removes the ability for other players to loot unwanted mobs.

OK then change the hit box of the mobs so rhino's cant park on them.

[onero S]

Bad idea, that makes the problem worse the rhino can just sit there until the mob despawns. That idea also removes the ability for other players to loot unwanted mobs.

Or even more easily make LEd vehicles clipable.

[nabbl]

Or even more easily make LEd vehicles clipable.

Or even more easily make LEd vehicles damagable !

wait... that would be too easy...

[Mokoi]

I will close this thread for the time being so we don't go driving in circles.
This is not putting an end to this topic - be assured that this discussion will be reopened in context with the aforementioned official statement.