1. #1
    Ex. Reakktor Employee John Doe's Avatar
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    Default Redesign of implants in Neocron

    With this proposal, we want to bring more "peace" into the game. The reduction of skills like agility or athletics made sense at first, as it was difficult to find something that would make all classes "pay a price" – as it turns out, this price was too high and has lead to frustration.

    What we are offering here is a perspective on how the implants (and armors) should/could be like in the future. But first, it should be mentioned that the current balancing rules will stay in effect:
    - Calculation of the skill points through the item’s TechLevel
    - Bonus system for Rare, Epic, WoC (yes, I know...)

    The model below follows a few basic guidelines:
    - The weighting of the positive skill points (bonuses) will generally stay intact
    - The weighting of the negative skill points will be changed drastically or in some cases completely removed
    - There is more room to work with when designing the particular implants

    ... Actual state:
    In the current version we have greatly reduced the penalties on implants to make them more attractive and usable. This decision was based on the short amount of time left to the retail launch.

    ... Target state:
    After having tested a bunch of concepts concerning this topic, we think the following will work best. It is fundamentally based on suggestions made by Dribble Joy in the English forum and separates the existing implants into groups:

    Implant-Groups: Skillpoints: Bonuses Skillpoints: Penalties
    - Offensive 100 % 50 %
    - Defensive 60 % 25 %
    - Technical 60 % 0 %
    - Neutral 40 % 0 %
    - Experimental 120 % 80 %

    All groups receive a basic characteristic that we want to describe below.

    Implant Group: Offensive
    These implants push the runner’s offensive skills and play a small role in reaching use restrictions. The penalties will focus on competing offensive skills.

    Example: Area MC5 Close Combat Projector (Rare)
    Positive: DEX, P-C, T-C, WEP
    Negative: R-C, H-C (penalties are further cut in half because of the rare-bonus)
    Explanation: As a short distance chip, it is opposed to long range skills – M-C and APU are neutral.

    Implant Group: Defensive
    These implants focus on secondary skills or resistances. The skill bonus is moderate, but they have barely any penalties. The penalties focus on weakening offensive capabilities (but are smaller than in the offensive group).

    Example: NCPD Special Unit
    Positive: ENR, XRR, POR
    Positive (Suggestion byDribble Joy): XRR, POR (combat against DoY-Units)
    Negative: M-C, H-C, P-C (designed for special CopBots)

    Implant Group: Technical
    These implants support runners with "day-to-day" skills (i.e. construction) – they will no longer be competing with offensive or defensive skills, as the loss of an implant slot is considered a sufficient penalty.

    Example: Vehicle Interface
    Positive: VHC
    Negative: none

    Implant Group: Neutral
    These implants focus on general skills and can not really be classified into another group. They are generally laid out to reach use restrictions and do not increase any specific skills. The loss of a slot is also considered a high enough penalty.

    Example: BioTech M.O.V.E.O.N.
    Positive: CON, END, HLT, TRA
    Negative: none

    Implant Group: Experimental
    These implants push special skills in an extreme amount and therefore have the strongest penalties – these penalties can even affect very important skills and have an odd setting. However, this group is supposed to have "extreme" effects! We will only move very few existing implants into this group, as we do not want to mess up your favorite chips. Future implants can fill this group.

    Example: Experimental Mindcontrol CPU
    Positive: DEX, RCL, WPW
    Negative: AGL, TRA
    Explanation: This chip pushes the droner’s skills extremely – but simultaneously reduce his mobility.

    This concept should give you a sense for how we currently see the implants – however it is not more than a basis for discussion (we can always talk about details)! We would prioritize the brain slot implants and implement their changes as soon as possible. All other areas would follow at a later point.
    ---
    "I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change." - Neo, The Matrix

  2. #2
    I stay in the canyons
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    sounds good! Patch it up so we can test these suggestions. Also i would like to point out that the marine needs a str boost
    Let hc PE's gun all 4x4 vechicle guns without drugs (make HC/melee PE's viable).
    Fix some chips (e.g moveon and marine).
    Put the noob stealth back to 10 sec (or give pe's another 10 sec stealth).
    Make more sense into the negatives on chips (they mostly don't make sense).
    Give PE's a better heal (e.g tl30ish)

  3. #3

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    Aye i like the sound of this, but i will say more once it be patched

  4. #4
    Cyberdyne Firmenmaskottchen Amox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silent000
    Aye i like the sound of this, but i will say more once it be patched

    ... Actual state:
    In the current version we have greatly reduced the penalties on implants to make them more attractive and usable. This decision was based on the short amount of time left to the retail launch.

    after retail :/



  5. #5
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    Holy crap.
    Sex j00.

    (Let's hope you get it right )

    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe
    Implant Group: Defensive
    These implants focus on secondary skills or resistances. The skill bonus is moderate, but they have barely any penalties. The penalties focus on weakening offensive capabilities (but are smaller than in the offensive group).

    Example: NCPD Special Unit
    Positive: ENR, XRR, POR
    Positive (Suggestion byDribble Joy): XRR, POR (combat against DoY-Units)
    Negative: M-C, H-C, P-C (designed for special CopBots)
    This is interesting. I don't have any issues with this, though one would hope there's an equivalent pistol, melee and heavy version.
    Last edited by Dribble Joy; 02-03-07 at 18:22.

  6. #6
    Tech Haven Network Brammers's Avatar
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    This looks a lot closer to how things are now in 2.1, and it looks a lot more sensible.

    Looks good on paper, let's see it in a patch...

    ...although I'm going to quietly scream at you when you do change all the values of the implants after retail goes live, sd someone will have to change all the implants in the THN Item DB.
    Last edited by Brammers; 02-03-07 at 18:07.

  7. #7
    Banned User Dogface's Avatar
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    OMG DJ'S FAMOUS!


  8. #8
    Banned User Bredahl's Avatar
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    New hope for 2.2....

    Sounds VERY good!

  9. #9

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    DJ stole the idea off me....he did!

  10. #10
    Bluenose Jodo's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Thats very encouraging as is the latest patch. I must admit I'm quite excited and equally as nervous about all this going retail. Not because I thin it's a bad thing but because I know I'm going to feel quite lost in my own virtual skin.

    Big thanks to DJ for putting so much effort in with this one, even more so because EVERYBODY seems quite comfortable with that design.

    Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. - Basil Fawlty

  11. #11
    Slaving over Sony Vegas CMaster's Avatar
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    Question?
    Where do implants like the simple primary stat boosters fit in to this?
    At the moment, a simple +5str chip can have a whole load of impacts.
    On a tank, its an offence booster (after a fashion) as it enables the reaching of higher TL weapons.
    In a PE (pistol or rifle) however, it is a defence booster as it allows the wearing of higher TL armours...#

    Also, the idea of extereme expiermental chips sounds fun. However, they would be of greater conceivable use if the weapons calculations are changed. At the moment, most people are already easily reaching the "flatline" in weapon performance, and bigger + rc/pc/whatever doesn't really make much difference.

  12. #12
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    I'd like to reiterate my thoughts about agl/ath modifiers on imps quickly.

    Agl and ath are niether offencive or defencive skills, as they can both be traded for increases (or decreases) in both. Thus having negative agl/ath effects dampens the entire character combat wise (no real issue in having malii on these for vehicle/tradeskill imps).
    This makes agl/ath effects on defencive or offence imps problematic, either as positive or negative. However it does make them good generic effects for neutral imps.

    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster
    Also, the idea of extereme expiermental chips sounds fun. However, they would be of greater conceivable use if the weapons calculations are changed. At the moment, most people are already easily reaching the "flatline" in weapon performance, and bigger + rc/pc/whatever doesn't really make much difference.
    Exactly, a kami would need to have enormous combat benefits (for a 20% overall increase in dmg/time you would need something like a +80 to +100 combat skill effect).
    The problem still remains with normal imps too, you can drop a few combat skill points to little effect and have a large number to put elsewhere.
    The dmg/time/skill-point gradient is too shallow and the offence benefits around are too high.

    Also, I can't read german, how's this going down over there?
    Last edited by Dribble Joy; 02-03-07 at 19:34.

  13. #13
    Registered User Zheo's Avatar
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    you havent mentioned HC implants which gave massive negative agility and athletics, while mc and pistols rifles got negative combat skils something which DOES NOT EFFECT THE USER!

    Do HC implants still screw over HC compaired to other combat classes?

  14. #14
    [UneX] - Developer | Liasion StevenJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silent000
    DJ stole the idea off me....he did!
    DJ needs a "Thanks" in the credits

    This idea seemed to make perfect sense when he first proposed it, and still does. Great to see it making it into the game!

  15. #15
    Hiding from the mafia RusSki's Avatar
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    Quality idea's, finally they're taking notice of DJ.
    I'll be honest most of the time i dont know whats he's on about but even then its sounds good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

    Holy crap.
    Sex j00.

    (Let's hope you get it right )

    Yeah cos if it goes tits up its your fault and its YOU who killed neocron lol

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerRamjet
    lol, just lol. I mean, really LOL. If there was a case bigger than upper case, i'd be typing LOL in it now.

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