As requested: Implant scaling based on item quality

[Zheo]

Option 1, there are better ways to make csted armor/imps worth it.

What I would do, is add slots to armor and imps and then let players mod items to customize the stats on it. So for armor you can, to a degree, choose to specialize in 1 resist or spread resists out. This is going to be even more useful with the new armor system.

For imps you can choose to mod them with small boni to things like agil, atl, resists, or subskills. This could also be used to offset the maluses on many imps, you can mod them to emphasize their functions or choose to negate their negatives.

Armour would have to have so many slots to make it useful so that would require either armour to have 5+ slots, or buying/building alot of armour!

[mccaff]

Armour would have to have so many slots to make it useful so that would require either armour to have 5+ slots, or buying/building alot of armour!

Not really.

Armour exactly the same now, but with the option of adding a little to one damagetype.

I don't think he is asking for armour to have 0 resists until slotted.

[SorkZmok]

Armour would have to have so many slots to make it useful so that would require either armour to have 5+ slots, or buying/building alot of armour!

Well you wouldnt make the armor stats depend on the slots only. I'd rather want armor slots to give slight extra resists up to a maximum of maybe 5 resist points per mod. So you could still compete without having to get the best equip possible.

[onero S]

Well you wouldnt make the armor stats depend on the slots only. I'd rather want armor slots to give slight extra resists up to a maximum of maybe 5 resist points per mod. So you could still compete without having to get the best equip possible.

yea, 0 slot armor would be 95% as effective as 5 slotted armor. But for instance, lets say you were worried about PSR, if you put a PSR mod on every peice of your armor you could get a good 30 bonus poison that way, so having 5 slotted armor wouldn't make or break you, but generaly you'd want at least a couple of slots on armor.

And obviously the effectivness of the mods can be tweaked, its more just the idea that I was suggesting.

[GOD OF HELL]

I must say that Alternative 1 is the old way but...NO.

I am going with Alternative #2. I think that it really brings out more of the game that it is. A lot of people posting have ideas that don't take into more of the real elements that take place.

For instance, if you are wearing armor and it starts wearing down, would you be able to take more bullets? Of course, because your armor is beat up a bit more.

If not #2, #3 or #4 is just fine.

[Kame]

Is the option4 the one that affects the negative of the implant ?
If yes then i vote for that.

First its a good design.

Second, if anyone worries about not being able to move because you get a few more -ath or something we have to not consider whatever the person says. He has no clue at all.

Third, i think anything that affects the (+) positive/bonus aspect of implants is a big NO NO. Were not talking armor here, ppl defenetly base setups on the bonuses of imps. Think about TC, wich is directly linked to runspeed.(of course runners want to have as much as they can in agil)
Affecting mainskill bonuses is out of question.



Now the only downside i see to that is that its gonna create implant bugs, of the likes of the "i-see-my-imp-127/120 or the trade-me-to-see-if-broken"
As far as the whole project, i think the aim is to keep bugs to a minimum ?
Keep that in mind.

[mccaff]

I must say that Alternative 1 is the old way but...NO.

I am going with Alternative #2. I think that it really brings out more of the game that it is. A lot of people posting have ideas that don't take into more of the real elements that take place.

For instance, if you are wearing armor and it starts wearing down, would you be able to take more bullets? Of course, because your armor is beat up a bit more.

If not #2, #3 or #4 is just fine.

If you want realism spec 0 in all resists so you die in a few shots.

I'd rather have a fun game.

[unreal]

Going off topic with all this armour garble...

There's already enough items that people whine about losing when they die, which results in them zone whoring, and be unneccessarily PPU buttplugged over (with DB+Paraspam) so they don't die. And now people are talking about introducing armour where slots decide how effective the resists are? All that will do is add another end-game requirement which people will cry over when they lose their 5 slot piece of armour.

If armour was given slots and in my preference the maximum amount of slots should be either 1 or 2, the only difference it should have over unslotted armour is the ability to use a condition modifier. These condition modifiers would take the armour condition above the standard 120/120, so the advantage is only that the armour will last longer than normal armour and require less time repairing it in the beginning.

As hinted above though, the problem with Neocron over the last couple of years is that people don't want to lose their precious items however low level/worthless they may be, which results in lame PvP such as zone whoring, clip whoring and using every E-word in the book in order to cheat death. Adding more precious items will make things worse in that respect.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind an optional set of unique 'blank' armour that has no resist types except possibly a bit of energy or something by default, and can get the full 5 slots to then be modded to your own preference. The other armours would remain with just the condition boosting mods. Being able to mod every piece of armour with extra resists just seems like an easy way to make your character more uber without sacrifice (unless of course the resist boosting mods give penalties in another area as well).

The blank armour could have quite a lot of modifiers (some possibly only usable on a particular armour type (ie. helmet, vest, etc) to help make particular setups that bit more reachable. For example, you could have less armour resists but more skill in say Vehicle Use or Agility. The Modifiers would range from giving bonuses to all the various levels (int, str, con, dex, psi) and then the various subskills, not forgetting resists.

As long as those modifiers are balanced together according to the other armour types and classes, it might add that bit of variation that was talked about but doesn't yet seem to be all that achievable.

@God Of Hell: You've seen that newbie in the other thread asking why Neocron is so empty, at the moment this whole idea should be flushed down the toilet as it'll add to making things much worse for the casual and even PvPing players. As you've mentioned (I think it was you at least), quite a few of those players have either stopping playing Neocron or been banned. I agree with mccaff.

Most people can't be bothered logging their tradeskiller (me included if I still had mine) for people they don't know (such as random newbies), there's no real profit in it anymore. We already spend too much of our own time with the various Neocron grinds to get cash or rares. That's one reason people come and go, the economy favours the rich, which leaves new people screwed these days. Good look to those casual players/newbies in finding people to research, then construct, and no doubt repair those items not long after because of the choices made here.

Might start a quick thread about the newbie situation at some point and hope it gets listened to for balancing.

[Okran]

I like the idea of Alternative 3, however I think the 'negatives' are still a bit harsh especially when some of us have taken literally years to obtain a single MC5 cpu.
So, instead of:

Alternative 3:
Implants lose bonuses depending on their quality. Quality is divided into four areas:
- Artifact (Quality 90 – 120 Percent): Bonuses are scaled with a factor of 1.2.
- Good (Quality 60 – 90 Percent): Bonuses are not scaled (Factor 1.0)
- Bad (Quality 30 – 60 Percent): Bonuses are slightly reduced (Factor 0.9)
- Shabby (Quality 0 – 30 Percent): Bonuses are reduced (Factor 0.75)

I think there should be no quality deprivation between Artifact and Good, only once it reaches the 'bad' status then have reductions in place. Also I think 'shabby' quality should be a factor of 0.8 rather than 0.75.

[onero S]

Going off topic with all this armour garble...

There's already enough items that people whine about losing when they die, which results in them zone whoring, and be unneccessarily PPU buttplugged over (with DB+Paraspam) so they don't die. And now people are talking about introducing armour where slots decide how effective the resists are? All that will do is add another end-game requirement which people will cry over when they lose their 5 slot piece of armour.

If armour was given slots and in my preference the maximum amount of slots should be either 1 or 2, the only difference it should have over unslotted armour is the ability to use a condition modifier. These condition modifiers would take the armour condition above the standard 120/120, so the advantage is only that the armour will last longer than normal armour and require less time repairing it in the beginning.

As hinted above though, the problem with Neocron over the last couple of years is that people don't want to lose their precious items however low level/worthless they may be, which results in lame PvP such as zone whoring, clip whoring and using every E-word in the book in order to cheat death. Adding more precious items will make things worse in that respect.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind an optional set of unique 'blank' armour that has no resist types except possibly a bit of energy or something by default, and can get the full 5 slots to then be modded to your own preference. The other armours would remain with just the condition boosting mods. Being able to mod every piece of armour with extra resists just seems like an easy way to make your character more uber without sacrifice (unless of course the resist boosting mods give penalties in another area as well).

The blank armour could have quite a lot of modifiers (some possibly only usable on a particular armour type (ie. helmet, vest, etc) to help make particular setups that bit more reachable. For example, you could have less armour resists but more skill in say Vehicle Use or Agility. The Modifiers would range from giving bonuses to all the various levels (int, str, con, dex, psi) and then the various subskills, not forgetting resists.

As long as those modifiers are balanced together according to the other armour types and classes, it might add that bit of variation that was talked about but doesn't yet seem to be all that achievable.

@God Of Hell: You've seen that newbie in the other thread asking why Neocron is so empty, at the moment this whole idea should be flushed down the toilet as it'll add to making things much worse for the casual and even PvPing players. As you've mentioned (I think it was you at least), quite a few of those players have either stopping playing Neocron or been banned. I agree with mccaff.

Most people can't be bothered logging their tradeskiller (me included if I still had mine) for people they don't know (such as random newbies), there's no real profit in it anymore. We already spend too much of our own time with the various Neocron grinds to get cash or rares. That's one reason people come and go, the economy favours the rich, which leaves new people screwed these days. Good look to those casual players/newbies in finding people to research, then construct, and no doubt repair those items not long after because of the choices made here.

Might start a quick thread about the newbie situation at some point and hope it gets listened to for balancing.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think that armor slots would neccisarily become a huge end game hastle.

1) No armor is rare, that means you can use slotties on armor

2) The boni will be small enouph, that although having no slotted armor and having 5 slotted will be a big jump, the guy who builds 3 slotted armor and the guy who has all 5 will not have a large difference between them.

[Safunte]

Option 1.

But since the majority say option one, and a few have said option 3, kk is going to choose 3. And in this case, make sure its based off of MAXIMUM CONDITION not minimum.

and just to make it stated again... (in regards to removing hard caps on weapons)

REMOVE BUILD CAPS OFF NON RARE WEAPONS/SPELLS.

[zii]

Option 1 to avoid more unnecessary time sinks, but if this is not an option (!), then I would vouch for option four.

[HOG]

option 1 for sure. Implant penalties are rediculess. You work hard for these good chips and now we are gona need multiples of each. no way.

[Zerion]

Alternative 1.

Although 3 sounds tempting, if the loss based on /condition rather than condition/.

Agreed.

[npinchot]

option 1 all the way.
i can see the reason for doing the other options but the problem with takin away or giving imp/armor bonuses based on condition makes the game less based on skill and more based on items. nc has always been based on skill and not on items.
i mean ok u need to spend some time gettin decent slotted stuff and sure it helps to have all 5 slotted shit but a guy with 2 slotted weapons can do just as good as somebody with 4 slotted weapons.
if u wanna do some kinda bonus loss for imp/armor condition then make it so u can repair to 120/120. nc wont be more cyberpunk/hardcore if u away bonuses when condition gets low, because u will have a few ppl with more bonus advantage so it will just make nc less based on skill.
i see that u r tryin to keep the current content alive with this idea; i.e. go back to mc5 if ur imps get shitty etc but it gets old and annoying after a few dozen times. ppl dont wanna relive the same shit over & over they want new stuff.